From: Jeffrey Biggs (j.biggs@myactv.net)
Date: Sat Jul 26 2008 - 17:17:19 ART
Not that I against the tightening up....Because I am all for it, but isn't
this also another way for the "test/lab Vendors" to make a few more
bucks????
I mean really, if you want to tighten this up, you would have to perform
some sort of face to face verbal before they took the lab....that would be
the most sure way to know if someone knew what they were doing.
As far as test forensics....it don't take a genius to beat the system their
either, count to 60, click the answer, move to the next question, count to
64, next, etc...again, if you want to really lock it down, perform a verbal
assessment, that will be the only way to be as close to 100% sure as
possible.
JB
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Morris
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:28 PM
To: 'Michael Jones'; 'Joseph Brunner'
Cc: 'Farrukh Haroon'; ronnie.angello@gmail.com; 'nortic @hackermail.com';
'Narbik Kocharians'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: Good job CISCO!!!!
I think that would be perfectly reasonable!
That would imply having a distinct and separate "recert" exam than the
normal qualifier just like in the old days.
It used to be you had to pass a specific IP Recert exam (which was quite
heinous) or another CCIE written AND lab.
I'm all for upping the ante though!
Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
Senior CCIE Instructor
smorris@internetworkexpert.com
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
Toll Free: 877-224-8987
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Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
_____
From: Michael Jones [mailto:majonestx@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:27 PM
To: Joseph Brunner
Cc: Farrukh Haroon; ronnie.angello@gmail.com; nortic @hackermail.com;
swm@emanon.com; Narbik Kocharians; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: Good job CISCO!!!!
Now I can work with that Joesph...that sounds a little less extreme.
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
wrote:
If not a lab, my opinion then is a simulated serious of issues either
virtual with a dynamips like simulator or remote access to a real rack, but
delivered at a VUE testing center.
The simulation could be a challenge to solve a series of CCIE level hands-on
issues such as fixing bgp, configuring spanning-tree load balancing,
multicast routing, and just keep layering features. The test could be 4
hours and more geared towards how the technology is used in the marketplace.
Of course your configs would be script graded (such as the CCIE lab
assessor).
I don't think this is too much to ask of anyone regardless of where you are.
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Farrukh Haroon
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 4:58 PM
To: ronnie.angello@gmail.com
Cc: nortic @hackermail.com; swm@emanon.com; Joseph Brunner; Narbik
Kocharians; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: Good job CISCO!!!!
In my opinion they should not use the Written Exam for re-certs.
A separate regularly-updated exam should be designed for each track
containing computer-based simulations based on the current technologies for
that track. Something more intense than the current CCNP Level simulations.
Like NAC/MARS/IOS 12.4T/CSA/IPS 6.x/ASA 8.x Security Features for the
Security Track.
Using the lab exam to re-cert seems way overkill and practically impossible.
Regards
Farrukh
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:28 PM, <ronnie.angello@gmail.com> wrote:
> First off, way to go Cisco for protecting our certs!
>
> I think that the existing recert requirement is enough. Make the
> qualification exams more difficult to use brain dumps - add sims, drag and
> drop, etc. like the professional level exams and keep the content fresh..
>
> Sit the 8 hour lab every 2 years? No Way! Maybe a 2 hour subset of that
> with a much smaller price tag... I would really like to see my son grow
up.
> Aside from recerts , I'm retiring from certs after CCDE!
>
> Ronnie
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "nortic @hackermail.com" <nortic@hackermail.com>
>
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:23:54
> To: <swm@emanon.com>; 'nortic @hackermail.com'<nortic@hackermail.com>;
> 'Joseph Brunner'<joe@affirmedsystems.com>; 'Narbik Kocharians'<
> narbikk@gmail.com>
> Cc: 'Cisco certification'<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Subject: RE: Good job CISCO!!!!
>
>
> You are correct, how big a difference will it make? another correction,
its
> a 2-2.5hour flight radius, should read 4-5h diameter.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
> > To: "'nortic @hackermail.com'" <nortic@hackermail.com>, "'Joseph
> Brunner'" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>, "'Narbik Kocharians'" <
> narbikk@gmail.com>
> > Subject: RE: Good job CISCO!!!!
> > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:16:55 -0400
> >
> >
> > I think you are missing one test center there... Since I can't blow up
> the
> > map to get too detailed, I'm thinking it was either Bangalore, India or
> Hong
> > Kong, China...
> >
> > Test Centers:
> >
> > RTP (US)
> > San Jose (US)
> > Brussels, Belgium
> > Sydney, Australia
> > Bangalore, India
> > Beijing, China
> > Hong Kong
> > Dubai, UAE
> > Tokyo, Japan
> > Sao Paulo, Brazil
> >
> > And while that vast majority of Americans may live closer to a lab, I
> > thought we were talking mere quantity here in which case why are really
> not
> > the most populous area.
> >
> > But I think Cisco chose somewhat more major cities to align with the
> > "generally easy" places to get in and out of along with whatever offices
> > they already had.
> >
> > Will some people have it harder than others? Sure. C'est la vie.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > nortic @hackermail.com
> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:22 AM
> > To: Joseph Brunner; 'nortic @hackermail.com'; 'Narbik Kocharians'
> > Cc: 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: Good job CISCO!!!!
> >
> > According to the US of A intel its the 5th largest "country" (not 4th)
> >
>
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119ra
> > nk.html
> >
> > I thought the 70% of of the world population lives closer to a lab than
> 70%
> > of americans was hilarious, so I drew you a picture of the world, lab
> > locations and 4-5hour flight radius.
> > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/ccielabs/map-labs.jpg
> >
> > It appears that its more a case of 100% of americans live closer to a
lab
> > than 70% of the world population. China and India skew the stats a bit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > To: "'nortic @hackermail.com'" <nortic@hackermail.com>, "'Narbik
> > > Kocharians'" <narbikk@gmail.com>
> > > Subject: RE: Good job CISCO!!!!
> > > Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:19:04 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > > Last time I checked 77% of the labs were not in the United
> > > States... Unless we annexed
> > >
> > > Sao Paulo, Brazil
> > > Brussels, Belgium
> > > Dubai, UAE
> > > Tokyo, Japan
> > > Hong Kong, China
> > > Sydney, Australia
> > > Bangalore, India
> > >
> > > So, Mr. Geography, I'm guessing here, but about 70% of the
> > > WORLD'S POPULATION lives closer to one of those labs, than 70%
> > > percent of Americans live to San Jose or RTP.
> > >
> > > The United States is the 4th largest country in the world, and
> > > North America is 3000 Miles from Europe and 7,000+ Miles from
> > > ASIA. It seems to me the lab geography would favor EMEA/ASIA on
> > > getting to the lab...
> > >
> > > Now go back in put some more thought into YOUR COMMENTS!!!
> > >
> > > -Joe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nortic @hackermail.com [mailto:nortic@hackermail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 4:05 AM
> > > To: Narbik Kocharians; Joseph Brunner
> > > Cc: Cisco certification
> > > Subject: Re: Good job CISCO!!!!
> > >
> > > How much thought did you guys put into your comments?
> > >
> > > For the rest of the world, (no not that small country called the
> > > US of A), its not a drive down to RTP/San Jose to sit the lab
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk@gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Good job CISCO!!!!
> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:19:11 -0700
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I will vote for that.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Joseph Brunner > <
> joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > THANK GOD!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets start by invalidating ALL previously obtained
> > > prometric/VUE > > certifications... and requiring CCIE's pass the
> > > LAB not just the > > written every 2 years...
> > > > >
> > > > > -Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Michael Jones
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:14 PM
> > > > > To: Cisco certification
> > > > > Subject: Good job CISCO!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/telecom/cisco-pear
> > > son-vu
> > > > > e-combat-exam-fraud-global-test-delivery-enhancements/-1099877822
> > > > >
> > > > > Tuesday, July 22, 2008 Cisco and Pearson VUE Combat Exam Fraud > >
> With
> > > Global
> > > > > Test Delivery Enhancements
> > > > >
> > > > > Jul 22, 2008 (Hugin via COMTEX) ----New Security Measures > >
> > > Underscore Commitment to Protect Certification Integrity and Value
> > > > >
> > > > > SAN JOSE, CA and BLOOMINGTON, MN--(Marketwire - July 22,
> > > 2008) - > > Cisco
> > > > > (NASDAQ: CSCO: 21.76, -0.41, -1.84%) and its global testing >
> > > > provider, Pearson VUE, a business of Pearson, today announced a
> > > > > series of security enhancements that will reinforce the
> > > integrity > > and value of the Cisco certification portfolio.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Cisco certifications are one of the most highly valued > >
> > > credentials available to information technology (IT: 22.37,
> > > +0.24, > > +1.08%) professionals, and protecting that reputation
> > > is > > paramount," said Erik Ullanderson, manager of global > >
> > > certifications for Learning@Cisco. "Proxy testing and other forms
> > > > > of cheating can diminish the value of certifications for > >
> > > individuals and the organizations that employ them. Pearson VUE >
> > > > and Cisco are leading the way in aggressively combating this >
> > > > industry wide issue through the latest advancements in exam > >
> > > development and delivery."
> > > > >
> > > > > The advanced security enhancements include the use of digital
> > > photographs
> > > > > for candidate-identity verification and forensic analysis of > >
> testing
> > > data.
> > > > > The new measures, to be implemented beginning on Aug. 1, will
> include:
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Photo on Score Report and Web -- On completion of a > >
> certification
> > > exam
> > > > > at
> > > > > the test center, candidates will receive preliminary score
> > > reports > > imprinted with their photos and unique authentication
> > > codes. The > > authentication
> > > code
> > > > > can be used to access a candidate's official score online at > >
> Pearson
> > > VUE's
> > > > > website www.pearsonvue.com/authenticate usually within 72
> > > hours of > > the examination. The online score report will also
> > > display the > > candidate's photo. Candidates may share access to
> > > their online > > records with
> > > employers
> > > > > or
> > > > > other third parties.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Forensic Analysis -- Exam results and other testing data
> > > will > > be continuously analyzed by forensic software to detect
> > > aberrant > > testing behavior and to flag suspect exams for
> > > further > > investigation. When
> > > problems
> > > > > are identified with the validity of a test result, the
> > > candidate's > > score will be invalidated. Depending on the exact
> > > issue with the > > flagged exam, further consequences may range
> > > from having to retake > > the exam to the imposition of a
> > > one-year or lifetime testing ban.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Preliminary Score Report -- All paper score reports will be
> > > preliminary,
> > > > > pending the results of forensic analysis, until official exam
> > > > > scores are posted to the Web within 72 hours of exam
> > > completion. > > Once the exam
> > > scores
> > > > > are official, candidates may use the authentication codes on
> > > their > > score reports to access the Pearson VUE website for
> > > score and > > photo
> > > verification.
> > > > >
> > > > > "We looked at alternatives for addressing the issue of proxy > >
> testing,
> > > the
> > > > > two primary victims of which are employers and those members
> > > of > > the certification community who chose training, hard work
> > > and > > experience as their path to certification," explained
> > > Randall > > Trask, vice president of market development for
> > > Pearson VUE. "We > > determined that adding photos to score
> > > reports and providing > > employers with the ability to
> > > authenticate
> > > both
> > > > > the exam score and the person achieving it will provide a
> > > direct > > benefit
> > > to
> > > > > all."
> > > > >
> > > > > These new exam security measures are part of Cisco's overall
> > > > > strategy to protect the value and integrity of its
> > > certifications. > > Other measures include simulation-based
> > > testing, dynamically > > generated questions and emulations to
> > > help ensure that Cisco > > certified networking professionals
> > > continue to have the knowledge, > > skills and credentials to
> > > perform well
> > > on
> > > > > the job.
> > > > >
> > > > > About Pearson VUE
> > > > >
> > > > > Pearson VUE (www.pearsonvue.com) is the global leader in > >
> > > electronic testing for regulatory and certification boards, > >
> > > providing a full suite of
> > > services
> > > > > from test development to test delivery to data management.
> > > Pearson > > VUE offers exams through the world's largest network
> > > of test > > centers in 162 countries, providing testing services
> > > for > > information technology,
> > > academic,
> > > > > government and professional clients. Pearson VUE acquired the
> > > > > former Promissor in 2006, thereby extending its leadership in
> > > the > > certification market. The company's innovative technology
> > > offers > > the highest levels of security and program control,
> > > while its > > commitment to service provides clients and
> > > individual test takers with
> > an unmatched testing experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pearson VUE is a business of Pearson (NYSE: PSO: 11.87,
> > > -0.07, > > -0.58%)
> > > > > (LSE:
> > > > > PSON), the international media company, whose businesses
> > > include > > the Financial Times Group, Pearson Education and the
> > > Penguin Group.
> > > > >
> > > > > About Cisco
> > > > >
> > > > > Cisco (NASDAQ: CSCO: 21.76, -0.41, -1.84%) is the worldwide
> > > leader > > in networking that transforms how people connect,
> > > communicate and
> > > collaborate.
> > > > > Information about Cisco can be found at http://www.cisco.com. For
> > > ongoing
> > > > > news, please go to http://newsroom.cisco.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cisco, the Cisco logo, and Cisco Systems are registered trademarks
> > > of
> > > Cisco
> > > > > Systems, Inc. in the United States and certain other countries. >
>
> All
> > > other
> > > > > trademarks mentioned in this document are the property of their
> > > respective
> > > > > owners. The use of the word partnership does not imply a > >
> > > partnership relationship between Cisco and any other company.
> > > This > > document is Cisco Public Information.
> > > > >
> > > > > For direct RSS Feeds of all Cisco news, please visit
> > > "News@Cisco" > > at the following link:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/rss.html Press & Analyst
> > > Relations: > > Cara Sloman Cisco 831-440-2411 csloman@cisco.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Mary Beth Mohn Pearson VUE 952-681-3000 MaryBeth.Mohn@Pearson.com
> > > > >
> > > > > SOURCE: Cisco
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Narbik Kocharians
> > > > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > > www.MicronicsTraining > www.Net-Workbooks.com Sr. Technical
> > > Instructor
> > > >
> > > >
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