From: Scott Morris (smorris@internetworkexpert.com)
Date: Sat Jul 19 2008 - 16:00:36 ART
HA! I don't think there'd be anything EASY about it! I think it will
attract people with that kind of experience, but still should not be easy!
Nobody's certified yet. Beginning of October is when the first beta run is.
That will mostly be a few people who've been invited to be abused for a day
in Chicago! I don't anticipate doing any studying as there really isn't
anything in particular to study. It'll be an analysis-based exam, so
hopefully that will all mesh well with my mind that day!
But nobody has passed anything yet.
Scott
_____
From: Luan Nguyen [mailto:luan.m.nguyen@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 2:55 PM
To: Scott Morris
Cc: Ronnie Angello; Scott Morris; Brad Ellis; Wes Stevens; Colin McNamara;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
So do we have the first CCDE yet?
I think if you have a triple CCIE in RS, Security and SP, you could easily
tackle it.
-Luan
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
After talking with Russ for a while (and abusing him a bit) I think the demo
is merely an early subset of one of the exam scenarios. So it's not FULLY
completed to that extent. So yes, what you saw on the beta is not entirely
indicative of the end result.
That's part of why they call it a beta! :)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Ronnie Angello
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:44 PM
To: Scott Morris
Cc: Brad Ellis; Wes Stevens; Colin McNamara; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
To add to Scott's thought...
I was just reading through the slides from the networkers presentation.
There is a particular slide that addresses multiple good solutions.
It basically says that, in some cases, the exam accounts for multiple right
answers. It does say that some right answers are worth more points that
others though. However, I have not found that to be the case on the demo
specifically.
Ronnie
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Scott Morris
<smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
> It's not geared to have multiple correct answers. Every network
> design has multiple correct answers. However, many of the answers are
> "less" correct when looking specifically at the questions they ask in
> light of the information provided.
>
> In a perfect world any viable solution to accomplish the needs would
> be right, but that's so CCDP. :)
>
> There's much more detail to look at and a mindset to be aware of.
> It's not just another design exam.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> Senior CCIE Instructor
>
> smorris@internetworkexpert.com
>
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> Online Community: http://www.IEOC.com
> CCIE Blog: http://blog.internetworkexpert.com
>
>
> Knowledge is power.
> Power corrupts.
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Brad Ellis
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:48 PM
> To: Wes Stevens; Colin McNamara; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical Exam
>
> It all depends on what kind of "mood" Russ White is in. :)
>
> The CCDE needs to take a lot of things into account. I'm hoping the
> final version does just that (has multiple correct complete solutions).
> From conversations with Russ at Networkers, it appears that it will be
> geared to accommodate multiple correct solutions.
>
> I can just see it now...design a network for a 10,000 site voice,
> video, and data deployment...and also put together a BOM. This would
> be a great way for advanced services to offload some design work! :)
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> International: +1-702-968-5100
> Sydney, Australia: +61 2 8080 2725
> Toronto, Canada: +1-416-238-0441
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Wes Stevens
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:41 PM
> To: Colin McNamara; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
>
> Colin,
> I think Cisco will do the CCDE right. The people that are saying it
> will be easy to cheat just do not understand how it will be delivered.
> If they only give it once a qtr and change it every time, what good
> will it do you to know what the questions looked like from the
> previous time the exam was given?
> As for the MCA, I don't care how tough it is. You still end up working
> on windoze servers. It is boring and lacks challenge.
> Been there done that and will never go back to it....
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Colin McNamara <Colin@2cups.com>
> To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 4:36:53 PM
> Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
>
> While I think Joe is being a bit sensational about devaluing the CCDE
> before the first number is assigned, i agree that Microsoft has made
> some good decisions in creating the MCA. They have followed CIsco's
> lead
>
> on using performance based testing, and may over time restore faith in
> their certifications. The one thing I have heard (from a few people)
> is that the MCA is focused almost exclusively on members of Microsoft
> Consulting Services. Contrary to that, in the CCDE beta meetings,
> while I have noticed a couple Advanced Services guys around, the bulk
> of the participants are from the Channel and industry.
>
> There are some hurdles to be jumped - mandatory channel participation,
> MIA prereq, etc. for the CCDE to hit its full potential, but I am
> confident that the CCDE team recognizes these issues, and will deal
> with
>
> then accordingly.
>
> --
> Colin McNamara
> (858)208-8105
> CCIE #18233,RHCE,GCIH
> http://www.colinmcnamara.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/colinmcnamara
>
> "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little
longer"
>
>
>
> Wes Stevens wrote:
>> I have three people with MBA's in my group and one with a masters in
> computer science. The MBA's are from Baylor and UT. Maybe not top
> tier, but pretty good schools. None of them have been able to break
> into management - although one is still fairly young and still has a
chance.
> They are still network engineers and I am doing better then they are
> with my IE.
>>
>> Not saying that you should not go for you MBA, just keep in mind that
> it is not a guarantee of success especially if it is not from one of
> the top schools. There is a lot of competition out there on the management
side.
>>
>> As far as not being able to make a living in networking - well there
> are a lot of factors - where you live, who you work for and last but
> not least how good are you at network engineering. My experience is
> that there is still plenty of opportunity and you can make a pretty good
living at it.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>; Marko Milivojevic
> <markom@markom.info>; GS CCIE-Lab <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:19:33 PM
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical Exam
>>
>> I'm joking...
>>
>> I'm going to School to get an MBA. Cisco doesn't pay enough money to
> live
>> anymore...
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Wes
>> Stevens
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:32 PM
>> To: Joseph Brunner; Marko Milivojevic; GS CCIE-Lab
>> Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
>>
>> You are still missing the point. It is still just a MS cert.
>> But go for it. Let us know how it works out for you...
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>; Marko Milivojevic
>> <markom@markom.info>; GS CCIE-Lab <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:14:06 PM
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical Exam
>>
>> Nope. I donbt think you have read just the REVIEW phase of the
> candidate;
>>
>>
> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/architect/technology/reviewboard
> /d
> efau
>> lt.mspx
>>
>> Never mind the grueling 6 weeks at Redmond in the lab phases, and
> final
>> candidate assessment.
>>
>>
> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/architect/technology/howto/defau
> lt
> .msp
>> x
>>
>>
>> Imagine you and me working 6 weeks at Cisco with Russ White and Dr.
>> Parkhurst?
>>
>> Cisco needs to spend more time on assessing the people they consider
> worthy,
>> and more time assessing their ability to deploy and develop customer
>> solutions... rather seeing who can fire macro's into dynamips to sh
>> ip
> os ne
>> sh ip bg su, etc.
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wes Stevens [mailto:wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:04 PM
>> To: Joseph Brunner; Marko Milivojevic; GS CCIE-Lab
>> Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
>>
>> It is still just a MS cert. It only says you can point and click a MS
>> install like millions of others out there.
>> After you spend all that time and money there will be no payback in
> money or
>> job security.....
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> To: Marko Milivojevic <markom@markom.info>; GS CCIE-Lab
>> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:14:03 PM
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical Exam
>>
>> FYI;
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/architect/default.mspx
>>
>> The CCIE/CCDE is not a failed program; It is a program that accepts
>> failures.
>>
>> I think the MCA is the new bar. Cisco you are notified. Make the CCMA
>> grueling HELL. Make it 10x hard physically, so no fat slobs can pass
> it.
>> Make it 48 hours of non-stop configs, documentation, and testing
>> using servers, software, routers, switches, trace files, C#, SQL
>> queries,
> shell
>> scripting, anything else you can throw on there...
>>
>> When I spend 1 year / 16 hours a day getting it and I'm 30 then and
> SINGLE,
>> I want to be one of the only people in the world who has it...
>>
>> ;)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
>> Marko Milivojevic
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:44 PM
>> To: GS CCIE-Lab
>> Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
>>
>> Please note that test is delivered in VUE professional testing
>> centres
>> -- not all VUE test centers! According to Cisco guys, these centers
>> are where lawyers/doctors/etc. take their professional tests.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 19:29, Luan M Nguyen <luan@t3technology.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> I am going to profit big time from this.B I have a plan!
>>> I will open a top secret VUE center where the CCDE will be conducted.
> I
>>>
>> then
>>
>>> will print screen all the questions and hire some experts with Scott
>>>
>> Morris
>>
>>> caliber to answer all the questions...and share the profits
> :)...piece of
>>> cake!
>>> Any big wigs signed up for the beta yet i wonder?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
>>> Muhammad Nasim
>>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:09 PM
>>> To: Colin McNamara
>>> Cc: Scott Morris; Marko Milivojevic; GS CCIE-Lab
>>> Subject: Re: CCDE Practical Exam
>>>
>>> Flash based Exam sound interesting but vulnerable to PASS4SURE time
> of
>>> things if conducted in Pearson
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- Ronald Angello CCIE #17846
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