From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Fri Jul 04 2008 - 12:32:10 ART
I agree. I seem to recall a quote about 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'
or something like that. :) The list is all about a marketing statement,
and numbers are numbers.
When you place a quantified statement though and use words like "most" or
"more than" or whatever the phrase happens to be, the numbers should back it
up.
Perhaps at one point they did. Kinda like when automobile vendors say they
were the #1 seller in the country. I'm sure in some particular timeframe
that is true, but at some point in time it may no longer be true. That's
the problem with both statistics and with a competitive market! :)
Statistics happen. But the numbers should not be any attack on a vendor,
they are merely a representation of the people who have used the product,
passed the exam and told everyone about it. (e.g. facts)
Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
Senior CCIE Instructor
smorris@internetworkexpert.com
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
-----Original Message-----
From: josh lauer [mailto:jslauer@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 11:22 AM
To: swm@emanon.com; 'Brian McGahan'; 'Felix Nkansah'
Cc: 'Lala Lander'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: Re: Narbik Joins IPExpert....Interesting !!
sure,
but if you are comparing one to one it would make sense to remove the ones
who used the multiple vendors and to set a date (such as when
internetworkexpert was formed) that would be more logical. However as
mentioned, the numbers are that...just numbers. it depends on what the
question is...more CCIE's than anyone, fastest growing, etc...
on their own everyone's lists look pretty impressive so In my view the
numbers are just one of many elements to gauge the effectiveness of any one
provider.
I don't think coming right out and attacking a vendor is all that kosher
either, just my .02 cents.
J
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 10:58 AM
To: "'josh lauer'" <jslauer@hotmail.com>; "'Brian McGahan'"
<bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>; "'Felix Nkansah'"
<felixnkansah@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Lala Lander'" <sshafi@gmail.com>; "'Cisco certification'"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Subject: RE: Narbik Joins IPExpert....Interesting !!
> When the lists are setup as CCIE's that were helped using (insert vendor
> here) product, why would you discount those using multiple vendors?
> Unless
> your study was designed to figure out who used only one vendor to prepare.
> And wouldn't that logically skew to those who had been around longest?
> Because that would be years of a head start.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> Senior CCIE Instructor
>
> smorris@internetworkexpert.com
>
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
> 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
> Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
>
> Knowledge is power.
> Power corrupts.
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> josh
> lauer
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 10:06 AM
> To: Brian McGahan; Felix Nkansah
> Cc: Lala Lander; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Narbik Joins IPExpert....Interesting !!
>
> I have a question, not discounting your logic here but did you
> cross-reference the people that use both products? I'm curious on how that
> figured into the calculations. In order to be fair I would discount the
> ones
> that used both products in order to gain an accurate diagnostic here. To
> go
> even further what about NMC and other providers as well. I know I used
> around 4 different providers products and I'm sure many others have too.
>
> So I would take out the people who used multiple products and then focus
> on
> the folks that used the products singly, this would be more fair.
>
>
>
>
>
> J
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Brian McGahan" <bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 9:50 AM
> To: "Felix Nkansah" <felixnkansah@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Lala Lander" <sshafi@gmail.com>; "Cisco certification"
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: Narbik Joins IPExpert....Interesting !!
>
>> Yes, that's true, IPExpert has been around longer. However
>> Internetwork Expert has *both* the fastest growing list *and* the
>> longest list of all the vendors; check for yourself:
>>
>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/
>> http://www.ipexpert.com/index.cfm/Success
>>
>> As of this morning Internetwork Expert has 784 total CCIEs on our
>> list who used our products, and IPExpert has 729. This is regardless of
>> the fact that Internetwork Expert is about to celebrate it's 5th
>> anniversary this year, while IPExpert has been around much longer.
>>
>> If you compare recent CCIE's its even a much much larger
>> difference. If you count just numbers above 20,000 Internetwork Expert
>> has 128 people on the list as of this morning, while IPExpert has 54.
>> This means that roughly 3 times as many people are passing using
>> Internetwork Expert products versus IPExpert.
>>
>> I find it amazing that IPexpert says it "is proud to have helped
>> more engineers become CCIEs than any other vendor. While others may
>> claim this honor, IPexpert backs it up... the published numbers speak
>> for themselves." Yes, they do speak for themselves... about outright
>> false advertising ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
>> bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com <mailto:bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>
>>
>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
>> Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
>> 24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
>> Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
>>
>>
>> Felix Nkansah wrote:
>>> Hi Lala,
>>>
>>> How interesting. A poll wouldnt be necessary here I suppose.
>>>
>>> IE says they have the 'fastest growing list' of CCIEs. IPExpert says
>>> they
>>> have the longest list of CCIEs.
>>>
>>> If you ask me, I wouldnt say these remarks are contradictory. They are
>>> rather complementary.
>>>
>>> IPExpert has been around longer and I am not surprised to hear them
>>> preach
>>> as CCIE Vendor #1 (in terms of longest list).
>>>
>>> My 2 pesewas!
>>>
>>> Felix
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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