From: Paul Cosgrove (paul.cosgrove@heanet.ie)
Date: Fri Jun 13 2008 - 14:38:52 ART
Hi Scott,
I can see your viewpoint, but whenever I see posts here about 'real
labs' I assume they are advertisements by rip off vendors; Robert seems
to be making the opposite assumption. Maybe his guess is right, but it
too seems to be only a guess.
Robert feels strongly about TestKings and the like, so strongly,
according to his blurb, that "Robert decided that it was time for
someone to dedicate their time to preventing the spread of these illegal
products and services.And CertGuard was born."
Personally I don't think he helps his chosen career path as an upholder
of examination standards by targeting individuals who state that these
documents do not contain what some may think, namely that they do not
appear to be copies of the actual lab. This is a point which Robert
does not appear to accept, but having put his own examinations on hold,
it is unclear exactly why he holds such firm beliefs.
Robert clearly assumes that Ethan looking at a testking is evidence of a
desire to cheat. If someone looks at documents which they believe to
hold NDA material, I would look poorly upon it. But I certainly
wouldn't assume the worst and brand someone a cheat based on the three
sentences all this stems from. I can't say what Ethans thoughts were,
and I doubt Robert has that insight, but I've never met a CCIE candidate
who expressed an opinion that anything other than hard work would get
them through a lab. I would wonder why someone, if they had a desire to
cheat, would apparently only look at old material.
Seems ironic that the person here who seems to be effectively promoting
the use of this type of material is Robert himself. He seems to be the
only person who is suggesting they hold any secrets about the lab, and
is raising their profile and damaging his own cause and reputation in
the process.
Paul.
Scott Morris wrote:
> I'm not supporting what Robert William's did in crucifying Ethan! Don't get
> me wrong....
>
> And while I appreciate the difference of "looking" at something versus
> "relying" on them. But like I said, where do you draw the line?
>
> We tend to give more "leeway" when someone going for a higher (hands-on)
> cert that just looks at that material to help them get higher up. Would you
> look at someone differently who was only going to go as far as their CCNP
> but had used that material to help them pass the tests?
>
> I know that reality gives a lot more grey area than the academic view Robert
> posted of "he admittied that he cheated therefore he's a cheater", but where
> does that line get crossed?
>
> Why doesn't Cisco go after them? Excellent question, and I'm not the one to
> answer that! My guess it that it would involve the quantity of money and
> differing laws in different countries where many of these companies are
> based. I could be wrong, but I seem to think that TK was a british company.
> Microsoft tried to go after them a while back but wasn't very successful as
> I recall.
>
> So right, wrong, or indifferent they are going to be around. The difference
> seems to be do you ONLY know the TK (or other) information, or have you
> REALLY learned stuff beyond that. And I know the I don't have the time or
> energy to try to figure that one out with people. ;)
>
> *shrug* One of those things in life we will have to deal with in our hiring
> practices!
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Luan
> Nguyen
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:27 PM
> To: 'Scott Morris'; 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Anthony Sequeira';
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>
> Is it wrong to look at TK product? I vaguely remember someone posted on one
> of the board a couple days ago on how to use TK and subscribe to Safari do
> do a search for solution. If Cisco knows about TK and others, why don't
> THEY do something about it? Instead letting people like CertGuard making
> profits by proclaiming themselves protector of the cert virgin.
> Oh, and admitting to look at TK and others' so called braindump products?
> Lots of people do - famous one too :)
>
> -Luan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Morris
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:06 PM
> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Anthony Sequeira'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>
> I think they are more worried about the idea that people download questions
> to magically obtain certifications which they may or may not be qualified
> for.
>
> I think we've all seen that. In fact a search of the archives will show
> many discussions of this over the years in different fashions.
>
> So while it's a very real problem, I think the article went a little too far
> in crucifying Ethan. I really don't know anything about Ethan and haven't
> ever worked with him, but it seems a little harsh to devalue all he has done
> based on his posting, but he DID admit to using the TK product! I seem to
> recall people in here getting flamed for even asking about "real labs" let
> alone admitting to using them.
>
> Where does the line get drawn?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Brunner
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 11:55 AM
> To: 'Anthony Sequeira'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>
> certguard is afraid of testking because they are too stupid to figure out
> how to download it...
>
> They should be more worried about learning how to use cisco hardware than
> worrying about what certs other people have...
>
> lets see their list certs!
>
> Joseph Brunner
> CCIE, CCDP, CCNP, CCDA, CCNA, MCSE 2003
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Anthony Sequeira
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 11:53 AM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>
> This Network World post has a link to a comparison of TestKing and the
> TESTiT product I helped create for NetMasterClass. The link no longer works.
> Anyone have access to that comparison?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anthony J. Sequeira
> #15626
> www.freeiestuff.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Cosgrove
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 10:39 AM
> To: Tony Varriale
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>
> Search for Ethan Banks at www.networkworld.com
>
> Tony Varriale wrote:
>> Anyone have a link?
>>
>> tv
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
>> SAMARTH
>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:55 AM
>> To: 'Dane Newman'; 'Joseph Brunner'
>> Cc: 'Isabella Figarella'; 'Gregory Gombas'; 'Sadiq Yakasai'; 'Andy';
> 'Luan
>> Nguyen'; 'Brian Dennis'; 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>>
>> Ethan needs to be supported against baseless attacks. I remember how I
> was
>> attacked by an unknown person personally few weeks before for raising
> my
>> voice against a vendor.
>> Anyways truth always triumphs. Hope everything will get sorted.
>>
>> Best Wishes.
>> SAMARTH
>> CCIE #18535
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Dane
>> Newman
>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:36 PM
>> To: Joseph Brunner
>> Cc: Isabella Figarella; Gregory Gombas; Sadiq Yakasai; Andy; Luan
> Nguyen;
>> Brian Dennis; Cisco certification
>> Subject: Re: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>>
>> I must also agree and support Ethan on this.
>>
>> He did the work. It is documented. Certguard just wants to make a
> name for
>> themsevles attacking someone so well known as Ethan.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Joseph Brunner
> <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> what are they attacking him for? sure he was a little slow on getting
> it
>> (I
>>> tracked his progress against mine :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I failed a few times, I think he passed on the first try.. so that
> proves
>>> slow and steady works. how could they attack him?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Certgard needs to get a life (and a graphic designer, and web
> designer).
>>> their home page lacks credibility.and aesthetic quality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> From: Isabella Figarella [mailto:gigi.ccie@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 1:01 AM
>>> To: Joseph Brunner
>>> Cc: Gregory Gombas; Sadiq Yakasai; Andy; Luan Nguyen; Brian Dennis;
> Cisco
>>> certification
>>> Subject: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 2 guys at Certguard who claim to have "years of experience" are
>>> attacking Ethan Banks. I read their bull and visited their site.
> They
>> are
>>> lamers who need to rattle chains to be heard. I guess everyone needs
>> their
>>> 15 minutes of fame.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They imply years of experience it looks like a year of experience and
>>> barely have any hits on their forum except their own.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So how to fix it? Attack Ethan Banks the top CCIE Blogger. Anyone
> else
>>> think this is just wrong?
>>>
>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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