From: Chris Gray (chris.gray@ozonenetworks.net)
Date: Tue Jun 03 2008 - 16:07:55 ART
This is really interesting to hear from you guys, I am not so sure many UK
residents are on this list (Maybe mistaken), This is exactly the same issue
I have experienced in the UK and to be honest I very nearly quit Telecoms a
few years back because of it.
I think the market is just flooded with confusion as to exactly what the
CCIE R&S examination means and what kind of individual gets to pass at this
level.
When I walked into a start up 6 years ago, from scratch I built them an MPLS
Qos enabled backbone service DSL connections the length and breadth of the
country. I had no training and little budget (Thanks goodness for ebay) and
simply set myself the challenge of mastering VRF's MBGP and Qos. They seemed
to take it for granted like anyone could do it. This really kind of
perplexed me since I thought different but began to doubt my own value in
the market place (Supply / Demand i.e so many people doing it then your
worth less).
It took me a couple of further years to realise that this was not the case,
infact these guys simply could not begin to differentiate between a CCNA who
had just passed his exam vs someone with years of carrier product
experience. It comes back to the same principle - we all use it at some
point which is this.. When we are involved in an area we simply do not
understand we have to simplify it to under stand. That's what so many
employers do, the don't look much further than the CC in CCIE . CCIE /, CCNA
its all the same isn't it? This being the case, we have a lot of
individuals who, once have the foot in the door, work their way up and
muddle along. The employers like this because they pay less. As a result
less jobs to go around which means lower salaries
Thanks for that.. Back to my study now which incidentally doesn't involve
ATM, DSL, VRF, MBGP, L2TP aggregation Radius and Free BSD admin : )
_____
From: Joseph Brunner [mailto:joe@affirmedsystems.com]
Sent: 03 June 2008 19:49
To: 'Jonathan Greenwood II'
Cc: 'Dane Newman'; 'Brad Ellis'; 'Chris Gray'; 'Tony Varriale';
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
Then WHY would a CCIE work for only 100k? (many do, many even less)
Obviously, the value of many of these companies & networks must be
questioned.. Or is it the cert's value, huh?
Try paying your bills on 100k with a very modest home and car in many
states.
Maybe when I get my CCDE or CCMS (master savant) I'll get that house and
lady in the suburbs? Huh?
-Joe
_____
From: Jonathan Greenwood II [mailto:gwood83@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:41 PM
To: Joseph Brunner
Cc: Dane Newman; Brad Ellis; Chris Gray; Tony Varriale;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
I don't think the CCIE Certification is anywhere on the ropes. There's
roughly only 20K that's walked this planet to receive this certification
since the the program started in the Mid 90's. That's still not enough
Certified to go around the globe compared to the # of Company's and networks
that are out there.
Eventually there will be alot of senior guys retiring within the next 10yrs
or so possibly unless they just can't give it up. But a new generation will
need to pickup where the pioneers have laid the ground work such as a young
buck like myself. I think the CCDE and CCMA are place for these veterans to
move into as the technology grows to my understanding of what Cisco intends
to call the "MASTER" vs "Expert"
Jonathan
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
wrote:
No.
Bad idea...
The cert is already distracted and diluted by all the others things (CCDE,
CCMA, etc on the horizon).
My clients all ask me "are you going to go for the CCDE". The masses in IT
know the bar has already been raised, and that the CCIE is now on the
ropes...
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Dane
Newman
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:04 PM
To: Brad Ellis
Cc: Chris Gray; Tony Varriale; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
Anyone else think they need to make the CCIE for the different topics a
different?
Such as..
CCVE = Cisco Certified Voice Expert
CCSE = Cisco Certifed Security Expert
CCRSE = Cisco Certified Routing and Switching Expert
ect...
If you tell someone your a CCIE they kinda automatically assume your routing
and switching
And yeah please update the voice lab as Brad said.
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Brad Ellis <brad@ccbootcamp.com> wrote:
> I concur with that. We are looking to hire an additional CCIE Voice, and
> it's taking a while to find one. It's pretty easy to get an R&S CCIE
> engineer these days (from a staffing perspective). R&S CCIE is still in
> great demand, but voice is in even more demand - especially due to the
> number of Voice CCIEs that are out there. The only issue I have with the
> whole Voice CCIE track, is that Cisco is still testing on 4.1. All of
> our deployments these days are 6.1. Anyone who >HAD< a 4.1, has already
> upgraded to 5.x or 6.x. I don't have any customers who are running 4.1.
> Hopefully the CCIE lab exam will soon change to reflect this...BEN? :)
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> International: +1-702-968-5100
> Sydney, Australia: +61 2 8080 2725
> Toronto, Canada: +1-416-238-0441
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
<http://www.ccbootcamp.com/>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Chris Gray
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:27 AM
> To: 'Tony Varriale'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
>
> Its not that much better here in the UK. I have years of experience
> (Started
> for MFS Datanet in 1994). Have worked on stacks of kit most of which has
> gone (netedge, Xyplex, Bay, GDC, Cascade, Wellfleet, Stratacom) which is
> why
> I am working for this CCIE. Need to keep up with Cisco.
>
> But in the UK, its hard to get a job in engineering. Pre sales is not a
> problem, but if you want to walk into an MPLS engineering role, at a
> decent
> salary rate (#75K and above) its almost impossible.
>
> I engaged a silver partner a few weeks back, they are offering #65K for
> a
> pre sales role, but must have CCIE.
>
> I had a recruitment 'consultant' tell me that CCIE R&S is common, it s
> the
> CCIE VOICE I should have. Do these people realise what we put ourselves
> through to get this certification? I bet it s a dam site more than they
> go
> through to become a self labelled 'consultant'!
>
> Anyway, Keep up the good work!
>
> KRIZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Tony
> Varriale
> Sent: 03 June 2008 16:06
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
>
> I would rather be in OH at that pay rate. $110k in LA is tough.
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Morris, Jason L.
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:43 AM
> To: R.S. CCIE; Joseph Brunner
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
>
> I have no idea what the market in LA is like. I live in Cincinnati and
> was just looking at a 'cost of living calculator', the numbers you guys
> are throwing out are way low for the market here. According to CNN
> Money 110k in LA is worth just a little over 67k in Cincinnati. I've
> got 2 guys on my team who just got their CCNA since joining the company
> that are making that.
>
> Is the market in LA really that bad? If so I'll never bitch about being
> stuck in the Midwest ever again.
>
> Jason Morris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> R.S. CCIE
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:51 AM
> To: Joseph Brunner
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
>
> :-(
>
> That really hurts ...... Ouch!
>
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Joseph Brunner
> <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> wrote:
>
> > You don't find a job at all
> >
> >
> >
> > Walk through a big data center all those cabinets/cages there are a
> lot
> > of smart hungry tech guys out of work right now
> >
> >
> >
> > You are not alone .
> >
> >
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* R.S. CCIE [mailto:r.s.cciestudy@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:34 AM
> > *To:* Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > *Cc:* Joseph Brunner; Roger; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > *Subject:* Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What is the worst case scenario though? That is what I like to know
> .....
> > :-)
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Tony Schaffran (GS) <
> > groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com> wrote:
> >
> > A CCIE with no experience, you would be lucky to get $90K
> >
> >
> > Tony Schaffran
> > Network Analyst
> > CCIE #11071
> > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> >
> > www.cconlinelabs.com <http://www.cconlinelabs.com/>
> > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> >
> > Joseph Brunner
> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:35 AM
> > To: 'Roger'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> >
> > I was joking friend...
> >
> > So we do agree!
> >
> > I just finished a 28 hour marathon network overhaul and I'm home
> firing up
> > dynamips. Don't let your skill set get weakened, even for a few hours
> to
> > sleep.
> >
> > I was offered a whopping $112k a year for my Jedi skills in NYC just
> the
> > other day... the economy is $@&ked! That was at a fortune 25
> company!!!!
> > There are like 1000's of CCIE's out of work... Citigroup, Bear Sterns,
> > BofA,
> > Wachovia, Merrill Lynch, Morgan, Hedge funds, these guys are bleeding
> cash
> > and are dropping IT engineering staff like there's no tomorrow... lots
> of
> > smart guys with no dojo looking for work right now...
> >
> > That's about $2800 every two weeks after taxes... that MIGHT fill up
> my gas
> > tank, and put a few groceries in my house... LOL
> >
> > Guys, hit the books harder than ever if you want to swim through the
> next 3
> > or 5 years...
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Roger
> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:05 AM
> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> >
> > Man I hate to disagree with Joseph (and I don't all that often)
> >
> > If you are brand new CCIE, and I see that you have less then 5 years
> exp
> > in large-mid size networks I won't pay better then 110-125 (with
> bonus).
> >
> >
> > I have seen about 3-7 CCIE's recent in about the high 18xxx's &
> 19xxx's
> > they've been able to answer CCIE questions however their real world
> > problem solving has made me offer them much less. Reason: if they do
> not
> > have a wide breath of experience (2 of them never worked on Cat65XX)
> > more time in training and supporting them will be required from
> team/me.
> > We had one that said he had worked a lot of 6509's and was a nice guy
> so
> > I took him to our server room as part of the interview and asked him
> > about some of the gear as I pointed it out. He couldn't tell me which
> > blade in the 6509 was the sup.
> >
> > HOWEVER if you are going to work for a cisco vendor (gold silver etc)
> or
> > you have 6+ years, then Joseph is about right, well I hope he is =)
> >
> > Good Journey!
> > Roger
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > Date: Sat, May 31, 2008 10:49 pm
> > > To: "'R.S. CCIE'" <r.s.cciestudy@gmail.com>, "'Cisco certification'"
> > > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > $140,000 with 20% bonus in writing.
> > >
> > > Anything less and I'll say lance Armstrong has more cajones than
> you, LA
> > > cabronito Vato!
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > R.S.
> > > CCIE
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:04 AM
> > > To: Cisco certification
> > > Subject: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > >
> > > What would be the minimum offer (as an employee) should a brand new
> CCIE
> > > accept without hurting the CCIE prestige ? And this brand new CCIE
> only
> > has
> > > experience on 2600, 3800 routers.....etc. No experience on those BIG
> > horses.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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