From: joshua lauer (jslauer@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri May 23 2008 - 12:51:30 ART
I agree,
I look at the CCIE exam as a test of analytical ability and issue
spotting/solving. Sure you need to be technically proficient but you dont need
to be a "know it all". Some companies do expect their CCIE's to be supermen,
they are doing themselves a disservice by expecting this. The CCIE is a
certification, it does not necessarily mean the person is experienced in the
workplace. these are two different things. A wise employer will look at the
CCIE certification as just one of the requirements of employment. CCIE is a
great thing to have, but really just one piece of the puzzle.
J
> Subject: RE: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:40:40 +0100
> From: yemi.salau@siemens.com
> To: rik@guyler.net; marc.a.laporte@gmail.com
> CC: swm@emanon.com; gigi.ccie@gmail.com; dane.newman@gmail.com;
ktokash@hotmail.com; tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>
> You know what .. one thing is knowing something really well, another is
> explaining it. So, as CCNA, are you obliged to know or to explain?
> Whenever a Customer site goes down, which will you be interested in?
> someone to fix the problem or another who can explain the problem?
>
> I've come across a very technical consultant who has 25years working
> experience in this field, he can read RFCs in-&-out of the palms of his
> hands. But, he wouldn't get his "hands dirty" as some of us do. He knows
> all the theories thereis behind most of this TCP/IP concepts and if you
> put him in front of a L2/L3 Broadcast Storm issue, he wouldn't be able
> to troubleshoot and fix things.
>
> It depends on which angle you look from really, but I would expect a
> CCIE to explain things in a better way than a CCNA, not necessary too
> technical though.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Yemi Salau
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Rik Guyler [mailto:rik@guyler.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 3:43 PM
> To: 'Marc La Porte'; Salau, Yemi
> Cc: 'Scott Morris'; 'Isabella Figarella'; 'Dane Newman'; 'keith tokash';
> tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
>
>
>
> That's a pretty good approach. I've always believed that if somebody
> truly understands a subject then that person should be able to explain
> it in easily understood terms to a layman.
>
>
>
> I explained this my wife one day when she was gushing about how her
> company IT guys were geniuses (I knew better from previous accounts of
> their adventures) and they really knew their stuff. She came back a
> week later with a different opinion. Now she knows how to separate out
> the chaff.
>
>
>
> So according to my criteria if I could explain traceroute to my wife to
> where she understood it then I would know how traceroute works pretty
> well. Even the simple things aren't always so simple.
>
>
>
> Rik
>
>
>
> From: Marc La Porte [mailto:marc.a.laporte@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 3:01 AM
> To: Salau, Yemi
> Cc: Scott Morris; Isabella Figarella; Rik Guyler; Dane Newman; keith
> tokash; tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
>
>
>
> My experience is that starting with a simple question is the best
> approach. A lot of people don't know their basics. Let them explain
> (extended) ping or traceroute. By their type of language used (the
> quality of their answer) you can deduct knowlegde of the person. Then
> pick a topic from his resume. If he's done a lot with BGP ask him
> something simple there. If he answers correctly, ask him what the most
> difficult thing is he troubeshooted with BGP. Extrapolate from there (if
> need be)...
>
> Like I said, I have seen a lot of people who claim they have a lot of
> experience fail miserably trying to explain ping or traceroute, or why
> you would use a sub-interface with Frame Relay, or what the effects are
> of classful routing, or what the differences are between link-state and
> routing-by-rumor, etc.
>
> Asking the crazy question usually doesn't work. It doesn't give you a
> good insight into someone abilities
>
> My 0.02
>
> Marc
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Salau, Yemi <yemi.salau@siemens.com>
> wrote:
>
> How about "explain the ipv6 stateless autoconfiguration process"? or
> even DHCP, ARP Process?
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Yemi Salau
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com on behalf of Scott Morris
> Sent: Fri 23/05/2008 00:52
> To: 'Isabella Figarella'; 'Rik Guyler'
> Cc: 'Dane Newman'; 'keith tokash'; tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; 'Cisco
> certification'
> Subject: RE: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
>
>
>
>
> Just playing along here.... But if I saw that someone got their CCNA
> back
> in 1999, I would still ask them a BGP question. Whether it was on their
> exam or not, the next questions would revolve around the "what have you
> been
> doing to increase your knowledge in the last nine years?!?!"
>
> Scott
>
> _____
>
> From: Isabella Figarella [mailto:gigi.ccie@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 7:16 PM
> To: Rik Guyler
> Cc: Dane Newman; Scott Morris; keith tokash; tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com;
> Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
>
>
> I do not recall any BGP in the 1999 version of the CCNA exam.
>
> Nope note there - see below.
>
> Are you sure you are being fair to a CCNA job candidate by asking
> something
> a CCNA student is not even taught, and especially not taught in 1999?
>
> It does reflect one's pedigree.
>
>
> Here is 640-407 - the exam of the day
>
> The course covers the topics you need to review for the CCNA exam
> including:
>
>
> * Understanding the Internetworking Model, the OSI Model, features
> of
> Cisco routers, switches and hubs
>
> * Comprehending TCP/IP Protocol Suite Overview including ARP,
> RARP,
> and ICMP Messages
>
> * Describe the major features, functions, and benefits of Cisco
> routers, switches, and hubs
>
> * Getting started with Cisco IOS software including router basics,
> user and privileged mode, Cisco discover mode, IOS naming conventions,
> and
> loading IOS from ROM
>
> * Recognize the configuration commands necessary to configure
> Cisco
> IOS features
>
> * Perform the steps required to log in to the router, use help,
> and
> use editing features
>
> * Perform the steps required to examine router status and
> configure a
> Cisco router
>
> * Describe the router startup sequence and load sources
>
> * Perform an initial configuration using the setup mode
>
> * Describe the procedures for working with configuration files
>
> * Perform the steps required to configure the routers'
> identification
>
> * Describe the features and operation of the two primary
> configuration
> modes
>
> * Identify the functions of the TCP/IP network and transport-layer
> protocols
>
> * Perform the steps required to configure RIP and IGRP in an IP
> routing environment
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure Novell RIP in an IPX
> routing environment
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure Frame Relay and X.25 on
> a
> Cisco router
>
> * Describe the commands used to verify and troubleshoot feature
> operation
>
> * Describe the steps required to initially configure a Cisco
> switch
> and hub product
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure ISDN BRI
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure a VLAN segment
>
>
>
>
>
> Here is the 640-607
>
> The course covers the topics you need to review for the CCNA exam
> including:
>
>
> * Understanding the Internetworking Model, the OSI Model, Cisco
> Hierarchical Model, Assembling and Cabling Cisco Devices
>
> * Selecting Cisco routers, switches and hubs. Switching
> Technologies
>
> * Internet protocol, TCP/IP Protocol Suite Overview including IP
> Addressing and Subnetting
>
> * Getting started with Cisco IOS software including router basics
> and
> Command Line Interface
>
> * Gathering Basic Router Information, Setting the Passwords,
> Banners,
> Router Interfaces, Hostname, Viewing/Saving and Verifying Router
> Configuration
>
> * IP Routing, Static Routing, Default Routing, Dynamic Routing,
> Routing Protocols, Routing Loops, Routing Information Protocol (RIP),
> Configuring RIP, IGRP, IGRP Routing Tables
>
> * Virtual LAN, Static, Dynamic VLANs, Trunking
>
> * Managing Cisco Internetwork, Boot Sequence, Configuring
> Registers,
> Recovering Passwords
>
> * Backing Up and Restoring Cisco IOS, Upgrading IOS
>
> * Backing Up and Restoring Cisco Configuration, Earsing the
> Configuration
>
> * Using Cisco Discovery Protocol, Using Telnet, Resolving
> Hostnames,
> Checking Network Connectivity
>
> * Configuring Novell IPX, Enabling IPX on Cisco Routers,
> Configuring
> Internetwork with IPX
>
> * Managing Traffic with Access Lists
>
> * Wide Area Network Protocols, HDLC, PPP, Frame Relay, ISDN, DDR
>
> * Configuring the Catalyst 1900 Switch, Features of 1900 Switch,
> 1900
> Switch Startup, Cisco 1900 IOS Configuration Commands
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure Frame Relay and X.25 on
> a
> Cisco router
>
> * Describe the commands used to verify and troubleshoot feature
> operation
>
> * Describe the steps required to initially configure a Cisco
> switch
> and hub product
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure ISDN BRI
>
> * Describe the steps required to configure a VLAN segment
>
> Here's 640-801
>
>
> Planning & Designing
>
>
> * Design a simple LAN using Cisco Technology
>
> * Design an IP addressing scheme to meet design requirements
>
> * Select an appropriate routing protocol based on user
> requirements
>
> * Design a simple internetwork using Cisco technology
>
> * Develop an access list to meet user specifications
>
> * Choose WAN services to meet customer requirements
>
>
>
> Implementation & Operation
>
>
> * Configure routing protocols given user requirements
>
> * Configure IP addresses, subnet masks, and gateway addresses on
> routers and hosts
>
> * Configure a router for additional administrative functionality
>
> * Configure a switch with VLANS and inter-switch communication
>
> * Implement a LAN
>
> * Customize a switch configuration to meet specified network
> requirements
>
> * Manage system image and device configuration files
>
> * Perform an initial configuration on a router
>
> * Perform an initial configuration on a switch
>
> * Implement access lists
>
> * Implement simple WAN protocols
>
>
>
> Troubleshooting
>
>
> * Utilize the OSI model as a guide for systematic network
> troubleshooting
>
> * Perform LAN and VLAN troubleshooting
>
> * Troubleshoot routing protocols
>
> * Troubleshoot IP addressing and host configuration
>
> * Troubleshoot a device as part of a working network
>
> * Troubleshoot an access list
>
> * Perform simple WAN troubleshooting
>
>
>
> Technology
>
>
> * Describe network communications using layered models
>
> * Describe the Spanning Tree process
>
> * Compare and contrast key characteristics of LAN environments
>
> * Evaluate the characteristics of routing protocols
>
> * Evaluate TCP/IP communication process and its associated
> protocols
>
> * Describe the components of network devices
>
> * Evaluate rules for packet control
>
> * Evaluate key characteristics of WANs
>
>
>
>
> On 5/21/08, Rik Guyler <rik@guyler.net> wrote:
>
> Damn...that about made me blow my milk and cookies all over the monitor!
> ;-)
>
> For me, that's not a tough question at all - No. But then again I'm
> currently gainfully employed. ;-)
>
> Rik
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Dane
> Newman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:43 PM
> To: Scott Morris
> Cc: keith tokash; <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com>; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
>
> I don't know about you guys but the hardest interview question I was
> ask is will you take ten percent less then your making now
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 20, 2008, at 5:13 PM, "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
> > Heheheheh... Stepping past boundaries has always been a specialty
> > of mine!
> > (grin)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > keith tokash
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:37 PM
> > To: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
> > Cc: 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: Interview question (was :RE: CCIE# 20863)
> >
> > Nah, I don't believe in torturing interviewees. Just a probe. Some
> > people
> > can cough up the answer and have no idea what it means, some people
> > can't
> > answer it, some are almost insulted you asked and springboard into
> > solid
> > detail. It's a nice soft question to gauge whether you need to ask
> > any more
> > questions in that area or should just move on tactfully. After all,
> > you
> > never know exactly where a boundary is until you step past it.
> >
> > With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy
> > and
> > with science.
> > --Carl Sagan
> >
> >> From: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
> >> To: ktokash@hotmail.com
> >> CC: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: RE: CCIE# 20863
> >> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:58:42 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >> I think the point is that you can cough up that statement at will
> >> during an interview...but when you are reading your first CCNA book,
> >> that BGP statement probably doesn't make a ton of sense.
> >>
> >> And that goes back to my initial statement...a typical CCNA doesn't
> >> really understand how BGP works.
> >>
> >> If that's what you consider fun in CCNA interviews...well...I'm not
> >> sure what to say.
> >>
> >> BTW, there are regex tools out there to meet your requirements in 30
> > seconds
> >> or less (for your CCIEs).
> >>
> >> Tony
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> >> Of keith tokash
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:38 PM
> >> To: Roger; Tony Varriale
> >> Cc: 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: RE: CCIE# 20863
> >>
> >> Hahaha, intricacies yes. But I believe they drum, "BGP uses AS-PATH
> >> to avoid loops" into every CCNA student's head. At least they did
> >> when I got mine
> > in
> >> 1999, and I hear it's much harder nowadays. I don't really worry if
> >> they don't know that since we don't hire entry-level people with the
> >> intention
> > of
> >> having them tune/load-balance our BGP, but it's nice to poke and
> >> probe
> >> a candidate's boundaries.
> >>
> >> With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy
> >> and with science.
> >> --Carl Sagan
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:31:15 -0700
> >>> From: divineone@divine-wind.net
> >>> Subject: RE: CCIE# 20863
> >>> To: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
> >>> CC: ccielab@groupstudy.com; ktokash@hotmail.com
> >>>
> >>> You don't know keith
> >>>
> >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> Subject: RE: CCIE# 20863
> >>>> From: "Tony Varriale" <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com>
> >>>> Date: Tue, May 20, 2008 12:09 pm
> >>>> To: "'keith tokash'" <ktokash@hotmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: "'Cisco certification'" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think expecting a typcial CCNA to know the intricacies of a
> >>>> protocol
> >> is
> >> a
> >>>> bit over zealous, no?
> >>>>
> >>>> Tony
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> >>>> Behalf Of keith tokash
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:13 PM
> >>>> To: theKonqueror; A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail)
> >>>> Cc: Cisco certification
> >>>> Subject: RE: CCIE# 20863
> >>>>
> >>>> Good move. When I see CCNA on a resume my mind jumps to interview
> >> questions
> >>>> like, "what is BGP's loop prevention mechanism?" When I see CCIE
> >>>> on a resume it jumps to, "what's the regex to filter transit
> >>>> routes from our ISPs,
> >> and
> >>>> if
> >>>> we didn't want to use a regex, how else could we filter?"
> >>>>
> >>>> If I see CCNA *AND* CCIE, my question will come out something
> >>>> like,
> >> "what
> >> is
> >>>> our ISP's loop transit prevention regex?" and my brain will
> > blue-screen.
> >>>>
> >>>> With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with
> >>>> democracy
> > and
> >>>> with
> >>>> science.
> >>>> --Carl Sagan
> >>>>
> >>>>> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 23:12:19 +0530
> >>>>> From: thekonqueror@gmail.com
> >>>>> To: ananth.sarma@gmail.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: CCIE# 20863
> >>>>> CC: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks everyone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Although I don't want to get into the certification value
> > discussions,
> >> I
> >>>> too
> >>>>> agree with Joseph about loosing charm of RHCE. I got it few
> >>>>> years
> > back
> >>>> when
> >>>>> it was still cool. I don't feel like recertifying it...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyways, I dropped CCNA from my signature as per orders of Mr
> >>>>> Scott
> >> Morris
> >>>>> :P
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks once again for all your support.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Rahul Nagare
> >>>>> RHCE, CCIE#20863 R&S
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> http://thekonqueror.blogspot.com
> >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/thekonqueror
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
> >> _
> >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Change the world with e-mail. Join the im Initiative from
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>
>
> >> _ Subscription information may be found at:
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i m Initiative from
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>
>
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> >
> >
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