From: Lucy Favaloro (lucyf@cv.net)
Date: Wed May 07 2008 - 10:59:01 ART
Lucky!
----- Original Message -----
From: Isabella Figarella
To: Lucy Favaloro
Cc: Colin McNamara ; A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail) ; Joseph Brunner ; Himawan Nugroho ; groupstudy ; comserv@groupstudy.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
What do they call the guy in medical school who gradulates last in the class?
On 5/6/08, Lucy Favaloro <lucyf@cv.net> wrote:
What is a brute force CCIE?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin McNamara" <Colin@2cups.com>
To: "A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail)" <ananth.sarma@gmail.com>
Cc: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; "Himawan Nugroho" <hnugroho@gmail.com>; "groupstudy" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>; <comserv@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
CCMA = Cisco Certified Master Archetect, or Master Internetwork Architect.. the name hasn't been officially decided upon yet.
--
Colin McNamara
(858)208-8105
CCIE #18233,RHCE,GCIH http://www.colinmcnamara.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/colinmcnamara
"The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little longer"
A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail) wrote:
BTW, what is CCMA?
Ananth
On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
wrote:
Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from Cisco
Systems
Would this be the one they are walking away from to create the CCDE, CCMA,
and CCOT (operating thetan?)
And the same one that lately employers hold in line with the CCNA
"Must be CCIE, or a strong CCNA" (see dice, 2 weeks ago)
Just checking, because before I add my stars to my shoulder bars, I was
just
Asking for feedback...
Joe,
CCMS (master skeptic)
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Himawan Nugroho
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:27 AM
To: groupstudy; comserv@groupstudy.com
Subject: How to Become a CCIE v2
Hi everyone,
I hope I don't just waste everyone's bandwidth.
I made the new version of "How to Become a CCIE" (v2) and hopefully
it's useful for CCIE candidates. You may want to check the following
as well:
How to Become a CCIE v2 @ amazon - with the list of some books I read
during CCIE SP preparation:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/RLUWDJWTD4FN2/
How to Become a CCIE @ amazon - with list of some books I used during
CCIE Security preparation (the original how-to version, may be
outdated, written on Feb 2006):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/BYNHY05D4X84/
Summary of the journey in passing 3 CCIE labs:
http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/09/triple-ccie-history-in-making.html
The very first post I made after passing the last lab:
http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/08/triple-ccie.html
Regards,
Himawan Nugroho
How to Become a CCIE v2
Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from Cisco
Systems, tips from someone who has done it three times
By Himawan Nugroho, CCIE#8171 (R&S, Security, SP)
Inevitable -- http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com
I was digging through my own blog archive and found that my first post
about How to Become a CCIE is quite old and need to get updated. In
fact, I'm thinking to modify it in such a way so the same principle
should be applied to any CCIE tracks, and even to any top level
certification from other vendor. Without any intention to re-invent my
own writing, I just put the updates and I tried to make it short this
time. So if you'd like to read more about my experience taking the lab
3 times, I suggest you to read the original version and all related
posts, starting with the summary of my journey.
Btw, in case you haven't noticed I'm trying to learn how to sell by
using marketing hypes, hence the words "elite level", "world's
toughest" and "from someone who has done it three times" yeah, right
:)
1. You still need to ask yourself "what's the point?"
It's still a very tough challenge. It's still a long and tiring
process. You will spend lots of efforts and money to get it. You still
need to sacrifice your spare time and social life. So you should have
at least one good reason why you want to do CCIE. And don't try to
fake the reason. No one can give you the answer and I bet no one other
than you really cares what it is. But it's important for you because
this might be the only thing that can keep you going, that can wake
you up from your laziness, that can make you come out from your
frustration in the middle of your journey.
Once you know and believe in your reason, then decide which track you
want to pursuit. Follow your heart, do only the track you like.
Continue with collecting the information about that specific track:
read the CCIE blueprint for both written and lab exam. Read Networkers
slides to get a brief picture about the exam format and sample of the
question (Yes they have a session for this, I remember I read and
listened to the presentation conducted by CCIE SP proctors).
2. Use the mid-level certification
Now the step for all CCIE tracks are very clear and they all have
mid-level certification (except CCIE storage). So if you want to take
CCIE in Routing & Swithing you should learn CCNP. For CCIE Service
Provider you should start with CCIP. For Voice it's CCVP. And for
Security it's CCSP (the new Security lab doesn't require extensive
knowledge of routing & switching anymore, you may check its blueprint
v2). Remember, using this mid-level certification doesn't mean you
have to pass it.
If you are one of the guys who wrote me email to say that
certification is useless, want to take CCIE just to prove how good you
are, doesn't want to waste time with CCNA, CCNP/IP/SP/VP then it's
fine. Don't take the exam but you can still utilize the resources to
plan your study. The base knowledge for CCIE is already covered in the
mid-level certification. So do the obvious and follow the flow: read
the books for the mid-level of track you want to pursuit even you
don't have to take the exam. Passing the mid-level exam is important
just as a review to ensure you have really understood the material
covered by the certification. And you may want to get your knowledge
to some extend to be certified by Cisco that can be considered a
reward in your journey even you haven't completed it.
3. A new way to build your home lab
Practice extensively in the lab is still the key to pass CCIE. But for
certain tracks, R&S and SP, you can practice CCIE lab without having
any real equipments. I have built a step-by-step guidance to do this
with dynamips. Dynamips is a very popular emulator for Cisco IOS and
now some people have released several front-end interface such as
dynagen or GNS3 to make it easier to setup and build the topology.
It's an emulator to provide real router environment that can trick the
real Cisco IOS so it will boot in normal PC. So it's still need the
real Cisco IOS software, and please don't ask me to send you this.
Many people still wrote me email asking this question: is it possible
to pass CCIE only with dynamips? Yes, it is. I have seen some of my
friends did this. In fact, I did all my practice for CCIE SP only with
(censored), something similar as dynamips. Censored = internal info to
Cisco employees heheh. I'm planning to take the top level
certification from other vendor (guess who :)) using a similar
emulator only. I want to do it just to utilize my spare time, to prove
my point here, and obviously for fun.
You may still require to build home lab, or rent it online, for other
CCIE tracks.
4. Passing written test still doesn't prove anything
This is still the same point as my original post. You can read the
written exam blueprint and compare it with the lab. Take the written
test and feel its coverage. Then setup your lab after that, start
doing the workbook, and feel the difference. For some tracks, studying
for written test doesn't add any value for the lab preparation.
For me, I don't count the step to pass written test as part of my
checklist to pass the lab. After you pass written exam, you are
eligible to register for the lab. And that's what it's all about.
Passing written test doesn't mean you are half-CCIE. It doesn't mean
you are 20% or even 10% ready to take the lab. I count it as Step 0.
From the written test you should start practicing in the lab and build
the percentage of your progress. Use the lab blueprint as your
guidance. Once you cover 100% in the list then you may be ready for
your first attempt. Well, this is not always the case. I covered only
80% and passed in my first attempt. But don't count on my experience!
So my point here is: never count passing written test as part of your
CCIE lab preparation. Just look at it as administrative step required
to register for the lab.
5. Read, read and read, then practice
I won't list all the books that I read to prepare for all my CCIE
labs. They are just so many of them! And sometime you just need to
read few chapters from one book. The must-read book list is different
for every track and may not updated. But you can start by checking on
the book list from CCIE website. If you think it's still too much,
then I suggest you to again use the Lab Exam Blueprint as your
guidance. Read about one scope of technology at a time. Read from CCO,
since this is Cisco certification so it always makes sense to check
the configuration guide and technical tips from their website.
Material from Networkers (slides with sound) is still a good resource,
and I think you can get this from Networkers Online.
Google is always our best friend. And you may be interested to
subscribe for online books library such as Safari Books online. Check
the list of their books first before you pay! The benefit of reading
from a website like Safari is they provide a google-seach to find
specific topic you want to read from several books.
6. Fast and Furious may not the trend anymore
Indeed you still need the speed in typing. I guess it will be
difficult to pass CCIE if you still use only two fingers to type and
always look at your keyboard when you do so. There is just not enough
time! But it was a different experience when I did my R&S and Security
with my SP lab. In the first two, there are many independent
technology that I can skip to come back later on if I don't know the
answer. So my strategy at that time was to answer all questions that I
know the obvious answers first. Then I went back to answer some of the
questions that I'm not too sure about it. And the rest of the time was
to answer all questions that I have no clue, and I used to depend on
Documentation CD or restricted CCO documentation websites to find the
answers. So normally I tried to complete 70-80% of the lab before
lunch, since I know I need to spend many hours to read from
documentation CD.
But in SP, it was a different story. Many topics are connected to
another topics, many topics are built based on another topics as
underlying protocol, and all decision we make to answer one topic may
affect our answer for the topic we build on top of it. So the strategy
that works for me at that time was "do it once, and do it right". I
needed to make sure I had answered the question correctly before I
moved to the next question (unless it's independent feature that I can
skip). Even I can type IOS command quite fast but at that time I had
only 1 hour left to re-check my work. And documentation CD is not our
best friend anymore in SP lab. There is no time to read it and
actually to be able to build a working topology all topics covered in
the lab must be understood thoroughly, unless it's related to features
or enhancements.
7. Join the community
There is no doubt about this. Learn from others' experience and share
your own experience. Check the archive for all previous discussions.
Answer the questions in the forum in order to get the answers for your
questions to the forum. Build a healthy discussion forum! Respect each
other and always think those people who are willing to answer are not
getting paid for that so don't be rude and push to get answers (unless
you join a commercial forum or the forum that is created by vendor to
answer your questions related to the product/workbook you purchase
from them).
Same as what I wrote in my original post, it would be good if you can
build a small discussion forum in your area that can meet offline.
It's always better to have someone to share your frustration or
listening for someone's experience to boost the spirit while having
coffee together. CCIE is a one-man-journey type of experience but as I
said in the original post, I was happy just to know there were others
out there who might be doing the same thing and facing the same
challenges. You are not the only one, even you are alone who must open
the door, Neo.
8. Asking the right question is an art
Try to ask some silly questions or obvious questions that any CCIE lab
proctors are not allowed to answer are not recommended. They are there
in the lab to clarify the question, and sometime they can provide you
hints to the answer. So use this chance wisely because you don't want
the proctors mark your face in his brain as someone who asks him the
answer for CCIE lab.
More into that, I think it's really good to build a culture on how to
ask a question effectively. I received many emails asked me how to
become a CCIE even now still working on CCNA? That's easy, pass your
CCNA first! Or I have seen some people throw one line question to the
forum: how can I configure MPLS VPN? Why don't you spend a little bit
of your time to read the website, use google, RTFM, try it in your lab
and when you are really stuck you can send your specific question with
all required information such as the config and topology.
Learn how to ask effectively.
We all definitely need this even for the life outside CCIE lab.
9. Understand the lab question
I was not born in english-speaking country. And even I have spent 6
years working overseas, with English as daily business language, it
was still difficult for me to understand some of the lab question. For
my CCIE SP lab all the questions were straight forward. I went to the
proctor only because I found some vague words and since I know how to
ask I could even get the hints after I clarified the words with the
proctor. So they are there in the lab to help you to clarify the
questions. But that's all.
And I found out when some lab questions are so confusing, it's better
to sit back and look at the topology as a whole and a unit. So try to
understand what we are trying to build in the lab from helicopter
view, not from the device or configuration perspective. For example,
when I did my SP lab I looked at the drawing, read the questions,
tried to understand what kind of network I have to build with all
traffic flow and policy then it became easier for me when I worked on
each question to put the configuration.
10. Skeptical attitude might the one you need the most
Trust no one, trust no solution. Don't trust the configuration guide
in Cisco website. Don't believe what people say or write in the forum.
Don't trust the configuration and solution written in Ciscopress
books. Don't even trust the solution from the vendor for those CCIE
workbooks that you must pay for it!
I'm not saying that all those resources are bad and should not be
trusted. What I'm trying to say here is you should not trust any
solution unless you prove it in your lab. It may work in the book but
not in your case because you use different IOS. You may read it and
think you have already understood the technology but then when it
doesn't work in the lab only you realize there is a missing part that
you need to discover. And some people either make a typo in their
solution or answer it with one way because of some consideration that
you may not able to see.
So never stop asking: Why? How come it's possible? Why the solution
use that way? What if I answer it with this way? How to prove the
concept really works? What if I add this on top of that? How to answer
this question if I modify or add with that requirement? And so on.
11. CCIE is nothing but a mind game
You still need to read lots of books. You still need to practice
extensively. You still need to make the strategy and plan your study
accordingly. But on top of that, you really need the right mindset and
attitude to pass. Other than being skeptical and consistently test the
solution in the lab, you must be positive most of the time. You should
believe you can achieve your target if you really spend efforts in
doing so. Avoid unnecessary discussion and long debate about why you
need to become a CCIE (you should do that in Step 1 above). Leave your
discussion group if they keep telling you it's very difficult to pass
CCIE and you won't be able to make it because you don't have what it
takes to pass. Or they say you don't have same opportunity as the
others who can pass. Everyone has the same chance to pass. During my
journey I have proved that it's not a matter of time, nor it's a
matter of support from the company or how many resources you have.
It's all about the mindset.
And other than being positive, you should develop ability to be
adaptable as well, to make you ready for any surprises in the lab. You
should know how to analyze a problem and use the right approach to
solve it. This is required to ensure you can understand the
requirements in the lab and choose the right method to answer. You
need to be able to make decision and handle situation under pressure
within limited amount of time. And you don't risk your life in taking
this CCIE anyway! So relax, try your best to be prepared, extremely
prepared, but in the end if you make mistakes and fail, you lose
nothing but the cost to take the lab. On the other side you will
definitely learn something from your failure and gain more than what
you lose.
So again, Everyone has the same chance to pass.
If someone tells you the otherwise, ask him to talk to me ;)
12. Enjoy every moment of it
What's the point to do something if you don't enjoy it? Again, this is
the reason why Step 1 is very crucial. It's very important to follow
your heart. Because pursuing CCIE requires you to be focus and
consistent, so it will be difficult if you don't know why you want to
do this in the first place. You must sacrifice your spare time and
social life so it's really important for those around who care to you
to be part of the game. Discuss your plan with them and try to still
make some contact with other human beings when you are not geeking out
in the lab.
I remember when I did my security I still spent some time with my
family to go to the beach, even my mind was in
Firewall-ACL-to-allow-BGP-traffic-with-NAT and
IDS-fine-tuning-to-send-alert-only-after-certain-hits. I sacrificed my
sleep to gain extra time to study. I sacrificed my lunch. I sacrificed
my time that I normally used to chit chat with colleagues. But I still
had fun doing my lab since at the same time I played the Matrix or the
Simpsons next to my hyperterminal. And not to mention all those Linkin
Park songs that I used to play over and over continuously.
And when you are preparing for CCIE, be in the moment. Make a 6-months
study plan but do one thing at the time. If you haven't passed the
written then do this as Step 0. If you haven't setup the lab then
start reading documentation about the emulator or search for the
hardware on ebay. If you must deal with busy schedule at work, try to
have fun by read CCIE material in between your busy time or steal some
time by locking yourself inside the toilet and read in there (I'm
still doing this until now!). Feel every aspect of the journey. Be
grateful when you have even a very short time to make progress in your
study. And always try to enjoy every moment of it.
Okay, let's say you pass. You may ask: now what?
Don't ask me. Ask yourself.
CCIE is just the beginning of a bigger journey. There are several
other CCIE tracks to chase or other exciting things to do in life such
as working in large scale project where you have to use all your
technical skills along with your ability to handle much complex
situation. But frankly speaking, until now I still haven't found
another journey that could offer such tense atmosphere, learning
experience, wide coverage of technology within short time, and fun all
together outside CCIE. All the time was just for me and my lab.
As I wrote in my own post after I passed my 3rd lab:
CCIE was the only time when the world makes sense.
Have fun, everyone.
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