From: Rik Guyler (rik@guyler.net)
Date: Sun Apr 13 2008 - 17:39:46 ART
I've been on GS for nearly the entire time since its creation but I would
consider leaving if we drove away or worse yet, banned the instructors who
are on this list. Not just a means of protest but that would also be a
clear indicator that the list is moving in a direction I don't want to go.
That said, I've always believed Paul Borghese to be a fair list moderator
and if anything has possibly been too liberal. Possibly because it's time
consuming or maybe he's just very tolerant of BS being slung around...I
don't know but I've seen some very serious breaches of etiquette on this
list that have gone on without moderation except the self-policing we have
always performed. In most case, the members police the list rather well so
I doubt there is ever much need for Paul and Co. to jump in and take further
measures.
If Paul has banned certain members there is no way I will ever believe it
has anything to do with the competition between Cert Science and the other
well known CCIE training companies represented here. Not knowing what took
place behind closed doors, I'm not about to start making or supporting
unfounded accusations. Besides, did anybody fess up to actually banning Nar
from the list? I haven't seen that post yet so maybe his lack of posts is
due to something else, like a misplaced keyword filter or maybe he's been
too busy with his new employer.
I am attending Nar's class in a couple of weeks and certain I won't get
banned as a result, even if I do report my experience to the list.
Rik
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joshua
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:13 PM
To: 'Ramy Sisy'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: *O*T* *Darby
Searching for a good CCIE boot camp is no different than searching for a
good university or advanced degree program to which to attend. Many schools
just simply have stronger programs and have a much better reputation than
most others. Bottom line is that the student is just going to have to do
their homework to figure out which to attend. Depending on the school of
choice, the student may have to do more work at one school versus another.
And like most schools, there are professors that very highly respected and
maybe even become a trusted mentor for many students. Then, there are the
"other" professors who just plain suck and you are left with questioning
just how in the hell that person made it through the vetting process.
Chances are, it is because of that one professor that will slow your
progress. CCIE boot camp/schools and instructors are no different. Some
are just damn awesome, while others will essentially drive a stake into the
ground through your foot.
$Nar--bik" was banned because former students were commenting about the high
quality of his classes.
But, from what I have seen on GS, certainly not any more than formers
students who have attended competing boot camps. What made $Dar**by's
situation different was that he posted daily reports while attending
*Nar-B-iks class. He was giving a daily account of **Narb-ik's
professionalism, abilities as an instructor, the quality of his classroom
instruction, curriculum and what topics we covered. This was from a
student's point of view. Grant it, *Darby probably over did it. *Dar*by
knew that he was probably stepping over the line. But, why ban *&Narb-ik?
I was in *Narb--iks class, alongside *Da---rby, when *Dar*by was banned by
P*aul B@orghese. There is one thing *Dar*by was right about. When it comes
to high quality hardcore boot camps, *^Nar--bik's class is a real threat to
&^Cert-Scie_nce and several other companies. I know. I attended the
Cer-t-sci-ence boot camp. Unless you want to be ripped off $8K+, I wouldn't
recommend the program, period. I have also attended INX and Netmasterclass.
*Nar*bi-k, INX and NetMasterClass are worth every penny. I have never
attended Scott Morris' class, but I have met the man and he is clearly a
hardcore CCIE much like N*ar*bik, INX, and Netmasterclass. You cannot go
wrong with any of these guys, for the exception of one.
Nonetheless, I have not seen *Nar--bik push his class, like some others
have. I have never seen him attach huge or sometimes obnoxious signature
blocks like some others. I have not seen *Narbi--k advertise his class in
any way, other than to inform someone to email him directly, if they had
questions about his class. So, why ban *Narb--ik??? He has contributed to
so many passing their labs by answering so many questions that others could
not do on their own. Just as Scott, Brian Dennis, Brian McGahan, Bruce
Caslow, Bob Sinclair and several others have done.
*Narb-ik$ had nothing but good things to say about Scott Morris,
Internetwork-experts, and Netmaster's.
He just never had anything to say about C*ert-Sc*ience.
You know; if you don't have anything good to say..........??? Hmmmmm....
CertScience...... Paul Borghese...... Ban &Narb**ik....... Has the the
Patriot Act has come to GS....??? I know, I know. That was a bit much. But
still, it does beg for questions when looking at the motivation for banning
*Narb*ik.
Why not ban all instructors from training companies, if there are so many
complaints about this stuff?
Complaints?? The IPExpert, Netmasterclass and Internetwork Experts have
nothing to worry about.
Their reputation precedes them. If others are threatened by it, then they
need to step up the quality of their CCIE boot camp learning experience, as
well as their level of professionalism. Or better yet, go beyond the norm.
The point of competition is to push the limits, find better ways and
hopefully, increase the quality of just about anything, including the
learning experience. If a CCIE hopeful asks for feedback about any persons
experience in reference to any one of the CCIE boot camps, the GS door is
going to open. And it will swing both ways. Former students are going to
chime in. It is the nature of the beast on this forum.
It seems to me that if you want to create a forum for pure CCIE studies,
without this adolescent bickering crap, then simply dis-allow any form of
advertisement or promotion altogether. Including the *CertScience signature
automatically attached to the bottom of the GS emails. If it cannot be
stopped, then try to
control it via a solution. GS is and has been the
largest CCIE forum in the world. So, why not let it pay for itself. Paid
advertisements??? Maybe a banner or set of links at the bottom of all GS
emails. Anyone caught advertising or promoting anything beyond the
banner/links, will be kicked off. Simple as that. If it is too difficult
to "police" the forum on this level, oh well. It is, unfortunately, one of
those problems to which a solution will need to be found.
Or..... just deal with the problem. Hey, just shutdown GS? Problem solved.
My $.02 worth Wait, now its $.0125.
Santi
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of CCIE
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:15 AM
To: 'Ramy Sisy'; 'ccie girl'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: OT Darby
What do you mean "Nar---bik is not showing since 18 JAN???
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Sisy
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:59 PM
To: 'ccie girl'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: OT Darby
Probably he was filtered after his last post "Nar
bik's Bootcamp Chronicles - Day 1".
Also Nar
bik, he is not showing since 18 Jan?!
-----------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Ramy Sisy
CCIE#17321 (Security), CCSI#30417
http://www.linkedin.com/in/RAMYSISY
CCIE Security Content Manager/ Technical Instructor
http://www.CCBOOTCAMP.com
-----------------------------------------------
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the
opposite direction" Albert Einstein
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of ccie girl
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:53 PM
To: Cisco certification
Subject: OT Darby
..is it just me or does anyone else miss Mr Weaver's input?
I hope he is OK.
Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu May 01 2008 - 08:25:50 ART