From: St Pancras (ccielab-groupstudy@mazehill.co.uk)
Date: Thu Apr 10 2008 - 19:13:06 ART
Paul,
Is there a way you can (automatically) force users to resubscribe, say,
every 3 or 6 months?
That way certain percentage of people will naturally drop since they
could not be bothered to renew.
Thus you will save a bit on bandwidth.
Just my #0.02.
Kind regards
St Pancras
Gary Duncanson wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Some good points there and well thought out (as usual).
>
> My 2 cents on this is while Im not adverse to subscribing at cost if it comes
> to down to it, I do wonder if some posters may be more inclinded to overpost
> on the mailing list about their vendor woes if they are 'forced' to pay to
> subscribe to groupstudy?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Regards
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Cosgrove" <paul.cosgrove@heanet.ie>
> To: "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com>
> Cc: "'Alexei Monastyrnyi'" <alexeim@orcsoftware.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>; "'Capt.Spock'" <capt.spock@gmail.com>; "'Paul
> Borghese'" <pborghese@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Changes to GroupStudy
>
>
>
>> The popularity of the list is no doubt closely related to the quality of
>> the posts. The various vendors have added a lot with this. If
>> questions do not result in good answers, or if better answers can be
>> found elsewhere, then the benefits of the list decrease accordingly.
>> Charging vendors (or others) to use groupstudy is something which could
>> encourage a drift away to other lists, e.g. the vendor specific ones.
>>
>> Unless voluntary, a vendor fee based model would require classification
>> of users as vendor/non vendor, which may not be as easy. People join
>> the list as individuals rather than company representatives. They also
>> seem to use the list as individuals so direct advertisements are,
>> thankfully, a rarity. Employees of a vendor may well wish to use the
>> list even if their employer decides that they do not wish to pay/donate.
>> Producing and enforcing changes in the existing open policy would be a
>> thankless task which could have unintended negative effects. Wouldn't
>> affect me, but personally I'm glad to see Paul has chosen to maintain
>> the open model.
>>
>> The current practice of allowing sponsoring companies to be mentioned
>> within email footers seems a good way to support Paul's work. He
>> mentioned in one of his emails that he has received a little support via
>> paypal, and perhaps the method for donating could be explained in the
>> emails regarding sponsors.
>>
>> All that said, if in the future is turns out that a voluntary scheme is
>> unable to fund the required resources, then I suppose he will have to
>> review things again.
>>
>> Paul.
>>
>> Scott Morris wrote:
>>
>>> I think the sponsorship model will hold things a little, as we generally
>>> aren't allowed to "advertise". We cannot control what individuals say
>>> however, so you all are always welcome to talk about whichever
>>> workbook/class/instructor you feel like.
>>>
>>> That's not advertising though. ;)
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:46 AM
>>> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>> Cc: Capt.Spock; Paul Borghese
>>> Subject: Re: Changes to GroupStudy
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>> with this vendor-independent list still advertising de-facto all the
>>> workbooks, CODs and stuff (no offense), I would expect vendors to share
>>>
> the
>
>>> burden of 400$/month or whatever it may grow to in the future. With more
>>> than four of them out here it is less than 100 bucks per month for now,
>>> which is nothing. I understand that many of their finest instructors are
>>> contributing a lot to this list which is HIGHLY appreciated. But still it
>>> sounds logical to me to help out one more way since it has grown for 10
>>> years from pennies and hobbies to one of the best CCIE study lists
>>>
> actually
>
>>> supporting their business.
>>>
>>> Just a thought,
>>> A.
>>>
>>> Capt.Spock said the following on 4/10/2008 4:51 AM:
>>>
>>>> Paul, If I were u I would have $2/mo subscription on assumption of 200
>>>> users with support level as of today.
>>>>
>>>> That amnt is little for many of us but good enough for your great
>>>>
> service.
>
>>>> No need for charity.
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Paul Borghese
>>>> <pborghese@groupstudy.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have been somewhat neutral towards the paypal button idea. In a
>>>>> perfect world I would be able to receive enough donations to pay to run
>>>>>
>>> the site.
>>>
>>>>> But in the entire 10 years I have been running GroupStudy, I have
>>>>> only received $275 in donations. But then again, I have not been
>>>>> encouraging donations.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue is, on average I receive 20+ e-mail messages a day from
>>>>> people that have some e-mail issue they seem incapable of figuring
>>>>> out for themselves. If I were to answer each e-mail I would have to
>>>>> quit my day job and just spend all day every day working on
>>>>> GroupStudy. So most messages simply go unanswered (unless I have an
>>>>> unusually light schedule which is rare).
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, so now the same guy who does not understand how e-mail operates
>>>>> sends in a $10 donation which does not even begin to cover the
>>>>> $400/month bill.
>>>>> Now
>>>>> he is expecting service for his donation, which I can not provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been thinking in the past of having a gold membership with
>>>>> additional benefits, but rejected the idea as I think it will kill
>>>>> the open characteristic of GroupStudy.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, I am also in discussion with some vendors to get them to
>>>>> sell products to our list members at a substantial discount. With
>>>>> our buying power we are able to get substantial discounts off list
>>>>> price. I will be announcing that program in a few weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Borghese
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: ccie az [mailto:ccieaz@googlemail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:31 PM
>>>>> To: Paul Borghese
>>>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Changes to GroupStudy
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all the work you put into keeping group study going Paul.
>>>>> I know we all appreciate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think someone before mentioned adding a Paypal donate button to the
>>>>> site. Could this be a option to help with the support costs?
>>>>>
>>>>> Az
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/4/9 Paul Borghese <pborghese@groupstudy.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have made a few changes with GroupStudy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I am working on filtering postmaster messages from appearing on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> list. We block over 500 spam messages/day from appearing on the list
>>>>> and
>>>>> I need to investigate how the postmaster messages are getting
>>>>> through. The filters will hopefully lessen their intrusion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. I have implemented Sender Policy Framework to help eliminate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> spammers
>>>>> use of the domain. I would like to thank Zack Tennant for his
>>>>> suggestion/help
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. A few weeks ago, I implemented automatic removal of e-mail
>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> that have delivery issues. Yahoo is the #1 culprit of non-delivery
>>>>> of messages. If you are receiving the list messages from a Yahoo
>>>>> account, you are in danger of being unsubscribed. When you
>>>>> subscribed to the list, the welcome letter warned you against using
>>>>> Yahoo and Hotmail accounts as those services only deliver about half
>>>>> of the messages posted on the list. We simply can not keep them
>>>>> queued on GroupStudy until Yahoo decides to allow delivery. I highly
>>>>> recommend you switch to Google Mail. Mention my name and they will
>>>>> give you the gmail account for free :-) .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. GroupStudy has been in existence for over 10 years now. It cost
>>>>>> me
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> over $400/month to run GroupStudy, with very little outside support.
>>>>> We need additional bandwidth/servers etc. and I simply can not
>>>>> continue to flip the bill. Therefore I will be offering sponsorships
>>>>> for the list. The sponsorship will consist of a welcome letter at
>>>>> the beginning of the month welcoming the sponsor and a small two line
>>>>> footer on each outgoing message.
>>>>> Certification Science (my employer) has agreed to sponsor us for the
>>>>> month of April. If you know of other companies that may be
>>>>> interested in sponsoring for future months, please have them send me a
>>>>>
>>> private e-mail.
>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> am trying to make the sponsorship as non-intrusive as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Borghese
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>>>> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>>> __ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>>> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>
>
>
> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
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