From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Tue Mar 11 2008 - 17:23:04 ARST
It's a networked world, it's not like 10 years ago when a lot of networks
were bits of string cobbled together with TCP encapsulated non routable
protocols and a plethora of bridging protocols. Look at the broadband take
up in homes these days. That stuff doesn't just happen, and many things loom
on the horizon and will require skilled people. Scale and complexity has
been pushed right out. There will always be opportunities for people who
understand how to keep all the stuff ticking over regardless of how many
superduper qualifications transpire. Numbers may be up but the potency of
what the CCIE can teach you is still there. The CCIE program has matured,
more people know about it, more people are doing it, particularly in Asia
and there are a multitude of learning resources available to choose from
these days. Some people study on the stairclimber listening to the iPoD,
others prefer their books. The learning opportunity is still there and so is
the potential of good jobs for years ahead. There are just a multitude of
things to choose from these days. Get as much experience as you can, and
choose subjects wisely.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Salau, Yemi" <yemi.salau@siemens.com>
To: "Dane Newman" <dane.newman@gmail.com>; "darth router"
<darklordrouter@gmail.com>
Cc: "nrf" <noglikirf@hotmail.com>; "groupstudy" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>;
<comserv@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: How to Become a CCIE v2
> Valid Points guys, in as much there exist MBAs who earn less than CCIEs,
> please also reckon with the fact that there are CCIEs who earn less than
> MBAs.
>
> So, it's down to you and your view of what you want ... Be it money or
> what you just enjoy and love doing.
>
> Remember the days where CCNP was the main thing, I tell you, there will
> be a time when CCIE shall loose the potency it enjoys today. BTW: CCIE
> in those days is a certification for the geeks who don't know where else
> to get a life. Please don't say I'm been sterotypical, just check the
> passing rate these days compared to those days, I mean the
> pre-CCIE#10000 era.
>
> Verily, Verily, I say unto you ... There will come a time when another
> superdupa Certification will overshadow CCIE, maybe not in the next 10
> years, just maybe not in the next 20years.... But a day will surely
> come, CCIE will be what CCNP is today, and another qualification will be
> what CCIE is today.
>
> Phds and MBAs will stand for life, those don't expire ... As a CCIE, I
> attempted arguably one of the most difficult test/exam in CCIE, but I
> tell you, it's nothing compared to spending 6 years at MIT trying to get
> Phd degree, I respect the fact that CCIEs earn a lot more than the
> traditional degrees, but hey, who says life is all about money? I know a
> CCIE at work here who hardly sleep and have high blood pressure due to
> huge commitment at work. Also, his family is on the edge of divorce, and
> he swims in a lot of money ... I mean money. But if you ask him if he is
> happy, he will tell you happiness is certainly not what he's
> experiencing.
>
> So, some CCIEs earn less than some MBAs/Phds, likewise some MBAs/Phds
> earn less than some CCIEs ... That is life, and we all have to move on!
>
> The only positive to me is that CCIE guarantees you number of interviews
> which MBA might not.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Yemi Salau
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Dane Newman [mailto:dane.newman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 4:05 PM
> To: darth router
> Cc: Salau, Yemi; nrf; groupstudy; comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>
>
> Street smarts vs book smarts argument
>
> CCIE is a practical test where you have to go do it.
>
> MBA is just 2 more years of college.
>
> shrug there are alot more then 20k mba's
>
> If you are looking for money go get your MBA
>
> Just my take on it
>
> Dane
>
>
>
>
> On 3/11/08, darth router <darklordrouter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> CCIE is a higher level knob pushing monkey :)
>
> Honestly guys, my buddy friend is an MBA, and makes
> significantly less than
> I do. An MBA doesn't necessarily land you an executive job. In
> fact, this
> might be a stretch, but degrees to me are pretty easy, they just
> take time
> and busy work, even an
> MBA. Half the battle is just showing up for class or doing that
> homework (busy work).
> The CCIE is by far the hardest test I've ever
> done. I'm not dogging traditional school. I have a
> bachelors, but they are two completely different animals. The
> CCIE to
> me was an instant shortcut into a better pay grade.
> The degree, with exceptions, that just shows people you were
> able to show up
> for class and aren't a complete idiot :P
>
>
> On 3/11/08, Salau, Yemi <yemi.salau@siemens.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wise talks NRF
> >
> > At the end of the day, we all need to ask ourselves why we're
> going for
> > this CCIE of a thing. There is no comparison though with
> traditional
> > qualifications ie. Phd or even Professorship. I've met people
> in my
> > career who knows a lot more than most CCIEs.... I'm yet to
> meet people
> > who knows that Professors at their special areas of interest.
> >
> > What I'm saying is, the Phd & Prof. World is very parallel to
> the CCIE
> > side of things, I'm speaking as a CCIE who is one the other
> side of the
> > road ... So I know what I'm saying. People do CCIEs just for
> the fun of
> > it, others to guarantee job interviews, some more money,
> others more
> > respect. But CCIE itself is just the beginning for some
> people.
> > Whichever way you see CCIE as, it's still very well respected
> in the IT
> > industry... And with it comes greater responsibility...
> However CCIEs
> > hardly invent anything in life ... Most Professors do!
> >
> > I'm not saying CCIE is lower than Phd or otherwise, from my
> own first
> > hand perspective, I think they are 2 parallel planes that
> can't
> > intersect on a common ground. Having said that, I still find
> it hard to
> > believe that there are Phd holders from MIT in the
> unemployment
> > industry.
> >
> > Many Thanks
> >
> >
> > Yemi Salau
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf Of
> >
> > nrf
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:37 AM
> > Cc: 'groupstudy'; comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
> >
> >
> > > Many managers have no idea how tough the CCIE is. But then
> again, can
> > you
> > > blame them? Lately there seems to be an outpouring of posts
> on people
> >
> > > passing
> > > the CCIE in 3, or even 2 months. How many people have
> completed their
> > > Master's degrees in two months? If it was accredited, I'll
> bet the
> > answer
> > > is
> > > 0.
> >
> > Actually, not only do I completely agree with you here, I'll
> not only
> > call
> > you, but also raise you. While managers may not have any idea
> how tough
> > the
> > CCIE is, well, let's be honest guys, how tough is it really,
> relative to
> >
> > other credentials one could earn? Few if any people can earn
> a real
> > (that
> > is, an accredited) master's degree in just 2-3 months, and
> certainly
> > earning
> > a Phd in such a time frame is infeasible for all except
> supra-geniuses,
> > as
> > even Einstein needed over a year to be awarded his. Heck,
> since the
> > MIT
> > PhD was brought up, I know quite a few people who have been
> working on
> > their
> > PhD's at MIT for over 6 years full-time who still haven't
> completed the
> > degree. To repeat, that's working on the degree FULL-TIME,
> which means
> > they
> > don't have a job (in other words, earning the degree IS their
> job).
> > Honestly, how many of us would really need 6 years of
> full-time study in
> >
> > order to pass the CCIE? Hence, while I realize that this is
> a
> > discordant
> > position to take, the fact is, the CCIE isn't that weighty of
> an
> > accomplishment, relative to some of those other credentials.
> >
> > I've said it before, I'll say it again: what severely weakens
> the
> > difficulty of the CCIE is the fact that you can simply take it
> over and
> > over
> > and over again until you finally pass. Sure, it costs money,
> sure it
> > takes
> > time, but nevertheless you can just keep taking the test
> repeatedly
> > until
> > you finally get the particular set of questions that you know
> well.
> > That
> > sort of process has no parallel in those other credential
> processes.
> > For
> > example, take the PhD qualification exams (which don't allow
> you to
> > graduate, but merely allow you to advance to candidacy
> status). Almost
> > all
> > respectable programs have a finite limit to the number of
> times you can
> > fail
> > those exams, usually being 2-3 attempts, with some (harsh)
> programs
> > allowing
> > you only ONE attempt. Once you exceed that threshold, that's
> it: the
> > game
> > is over and you're officially and irrevocably expelled from
> the program.
> >
> > Similarly, once you're a candidate who has submitted your
> thesis, you
> > can't
> > just keep failing your oral defense over and over again until
> you
> > finally
> > succeed. After a certain number of defense failures, your
> candidacy will
> > be
> > revoked. But a CCIE "candidate" can repeatedly attempt the
> test with
> > impunity.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
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