From: rodrigo.gutierrez@nsn.com
Date: Tue Mar 11 2008 - 14:36:14 ARST
Agreed dude.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>Behalf Of ext darth router
>Sent: Martes, 11 de Marzo de 2008 11:01 a.m.
>To: Salau, Yemi
>Cc: nrf; groupstudy; comserv@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>
>CCIE is a higher level knob pushing monkey :)
>
>Honestly guys, my buddy friend is an MBA, and makes
>significantly less than I do. An MBA doesn't necessarily land
>you an executive job. In fact, this might be a stretch, but
>degrees to me are pretty easy, they just take time and busy
>work, even an MBA. Half the battle is just showing up for
>class or doing that homework (busy work).
>The CCIE is by far the hardest test I've ever done. I'm not
>dogging traditional school. I have a bachelors, but they are
>two completely different animals. The CCIE to me was an
>instant shortcut into a better pay grade.
>The degree, with exceptions, that just shows people you were
>able to show up for class and aren't a complete idiot :P
>
>
>On 3/11/08, Salau, Yemi <yemi.salau@siemens.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wise talks NRF
>>
>> At the end of the day, we all need to ask ourselves why we're going
>> for this CCIE of a thing. There is no comparison though with
>> traditional qualifications ie. Phd or even Professorship. I've met
>> people in my career who knows a lot more than most
>CCIEs.... I'm yet
>> to meet people who knows that Professors at their special
>areas of interest.
>>
>> What I'm saying is, the Phd & Prof. World is very parallel
>to the CCIE
>> side of things, I'm speaking as a CCIE who is one the other side of
>> the road ... So I know what I'm saying. People do CCIEs just for the
>> fun of it, others to guarantee job interviews, some more
>money, others
>> more respect. But CCIE itself is just the beginning for some people.
>> Whichever way you see CCIE as, it's still very well respected in the
>> IT industry... And with it comes greater responsibility... However
>> CCIEs hardly invent anything in life ... Most Professors do!
>>
>> I'm not saying CCIE is lower than Phd or otherwise, from my
>own first
>> hand perspective, I think they are 2 parallel planes that can't
>> intersect on a common ground. Having said that, I still find it hard
>> to believe that there are Phd holders from MIT in the unemployment
>> industry.
>>
>> Many Thanks
>>
>>
>> Yemi Salau
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>>
>> nrf
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:37 AM
>> Cc: 'groupstudy'; comserv@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>>
>>
>> > Many managers have no idea how tough the CCIE is. But then again,
>> > can
>> you
>> > blame them? Lately there seems to be an outpouring of posts on
>> > people
>>
>> > passing
>> > the CCIE in 3, or even 2 months. How many people have completed
>> > their Master's degrees in two months? If it was accredited, I'll
>> > bet the
>> answer
>> > is
>> > 0.
>>
>> Actually, not only do I completely agree with you here, I'll
>not only
>> call you, but also raise you. While managers may not have any idea
>> how tough the CCIE is, well, let's be honest guys, how tough is it
>> really, relative to
>>
>> other credentials one could earn? Few if any people can earn a real
>> (that is, an accredited) master's degree in just 2-3 months, and
>> certainly earning a Phd in such a time frame is infeasible for all
>> except supra-geniuses, as
>> even Einstein needed over a year to be awarded his. Heck, since the
>> MIT
>> PhD was brought up, I know quite a few people who have been
>working on
>> their PhD's at MIT for over 6 years full-time who still haven't
>> completed the degree. To repeat, that's working on the degree
>> FULL-TIME, which means they don't have a job (in other
>words, earning
>> the degree IS their job).
>> Honestly, how many of us would really need 6 years of
>full-time study
>> in
>>
>> order to pass the CCIE? Hence, while I realize that this is a
>> discordant
>> position to take, the fact is, the CCIE isn't that weighty of an
>> accomplishment, relative to some of those other credentials.
>>
>> I've said it before, I'll say it again: what severely weakens the
>> difficulty of the CCIE is the fact that you can simply take it over
>> and over and over again until you finally pass. Sure, it
>costs money,
>> sure it takes time, but nevertheless you can just keep
>taking the test
>> repeatedly until you finally get the particular set of
>questions that
>> you know well.
>> That
>> sort of process has no parallel in those other credential processes.
>> For
>> example, take the PhD qualification exams (which don't allow you to
>> graduate, but merely allow you to advance to candidacy
>status). Almost
>> all
>> respectable programs have a finite limit to the number of times you
>> can fail those exams, usually being 2-3 attempts, with some (harsh)
>> programs allowing you only ONE attempt. Once you exceed that
>> threshold, that's it: the game is over and you're officially and
>> irrevocably expelled from the program.
>>
>> Similarly, once you're a candidate who has submitted your
>thesis, you
>> can't just keep failing your oral defense over and over again until
>> you finally succeed. After a certain number of defense
>failures, your
>> candidacy will be revoked. But a CCIE "candidate" can repeatedly
>> attempt the test with impunity.
>>
>>
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