From: Scott Vermillion (scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com)
Date: Wed Feb 27 2008 - 17:38:22 ARST
Not exactly "disparagingly," but one got the sense that maybe she was on the
CCDE team and had adopted something of an elitist attitude. One hopes it
was isolated.
And I agree Gary that chasing certs for the sake of chasing them at the
expense of doing productive/paid work would be folly. However, I don't
discount the value of synergy. SP makes sense to me because of its heavy
emphasis on MPLS, which cures cancer according to many of my more
well-healed clients. And I can see where several different pairings of CCIE
certs make for good bedfellows, personally. But not necessarily in hopes of
increasing one's net worth. Rather, acquiring a blended skill set that will
keep you very, very busy within your existing rate structure...
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Duncanson [mailto:gary.duncanson@googlemail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:22 PM
To: Scott Vermillion
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; Joseph Brunner; Darren Johnson
Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
Spoke of the CCIE disparagingly? I wonder why. She's entitled to her opinion
even if she is an idiot. The CCIE remains worth getting in my opinion. I
have certainly learned a lot over the years following and studying for this
track. I still think the CCIE will remain respected by many peers and a
requirement for many jobs both permanent and contract for years to come. But
experience will continue to grow in importance regardless of how many certs
vendors throw out. On that note, have you seen how many there are these
days? All that time chasing more certificates you could be on an airplane
heading out to do a useful piece of consulting.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
To: "'Joseph Brunner'" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; "'Darren Johnson'"
<dazza_johnson@yahoo.co.uk>; "'Cisco certification'"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> LOL Joe, I did see that "strong CCNA" post. And, in that same vein, I
> recently posted my resume to Monster but clearly indicated in my profile
> that I am a contract worker who will travel but not relocate. I have been
> inundated with queries as to my willingness to move to (fill in the blank)
> and work shifts in some NOC. Often, the requirement for the position,
> certification-wise, is "CCNA/CCNP/CCIE." As if they were all pretty much
> the same damned thing!??
>
> I have never worked with recruiters in my life (and that was not the
> intent
> I had when posting my resume up - rather, I'm trying to get some hits from
> organizations searching for CCIEs in my area or who are willing to
> travel).
> I had no idea what pond scum these losers turn out to be. Talk about
> LAZY.
> If the top-paid recruiter (at least out of those who have been in touch
> with
> me) were to earn $20k/year, it'd be about $15k too much!
>
> But I digress...
>
> Back to the value of the CCIE (which I guess isn't strictly speaking on
> topic either, but close enough):
>
> It's clear that Cisco views the new CCDE as top dog. It has been taken
> down
> from every site that I have been able to locate (at either Cisco's request
> or insistence, I'm not sure which), but there was recently an interview
> with
> some female Cisco employee who worked inside of the certification program.
> She made clear that, although the CCIE and CCDE were both expert-level
> certifications, the CCDE was going to be an order of magnitude more
> difficult to obtain and would in practice be a level up in the hierarchy.
> She spoke of the CCIE almost disparagingly. No wonder that interview was
> made to disappear so quickly!
>
> My limited personal experience thus far has been that the CCIE is valuable
> and adds to your luster. I have been contacted regarding opportunities
> that
> were not being made available to me prior to certification. However, it's
> thus far really done nothing for my consulting business, as organizations
> generally want to gobble up CCIEs all to themselves as W2 wage earners
> (often to meet these channel requirements or just to add to their own
> luster
> in the eyes of their own clients). I suppose time will tell as to the
> longer-term impact of both the CCDE and the growth of the CCIE program
> itself. In the mean time, I do personally perceive that the channel
> requirements are our friends in terms of sustaining our value in the
> overall
> marketplace.
>
> And I continue to work on my rather rusty IS-IS skills as part of my new
> SP
> endeavors. LOL...
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Brunner
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:32 AM
> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> That's fair, I agree.
>
> But what I'm saying is the $100k offered to CCIE's is often inadequate (I
> mean come on, its nearly impossible to support a family on that income
> nowadays almost anywhere without being in debt)
>
> So what the guy needs is an extra $50k a year. What we should be talking
> about is what the hell happened that he can't just get $170k a year or
> more
> and just relax.
>
> I'll tell you...
>
> The value of someone who knows what they are doing just isn't there
> anymore... Did you see my post a couple of weeks back "CCIE required or
> will
> consider a STRONG CCNA" from a dice post.
>
> The value of the CCIE has decreased because IT is quickly losing its value
> to businesses (even though they need it).
>
> If you are out there, please, NRF, tell us again why IT will all be
> outshored to India very soon and that companies no longer have "in house
> electricians"...
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Vermillion
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:22 PM
> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Of course there always exists a way to cheat the system (just like the lab
> or the written) if someone is truly determined Joe. But the CCIE
> requirement for partners is meant to ensure high standards in the channel
> program. I believe that it's one of the few things still keeping CCIE
> salaries high, as there are hiring organizations out there that absolutely
> *must* retain CCIEs to keep their businesses viable. If what you propose
> were to become common, then CCIE salaries likely _would_ drop to the $50k
> mark, as rather than actually needing to hire them at $100k+, they could
> just go out and do this end-around on the program requirements and never
> actually hire any CCIEs with the intent that they act in a senior network
> engineering role. I think the symbiosis here between CCIEs and channel
> partners has to be respected or we all suffer (whether or not we
> personally
> chose to work for one)...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Brunner
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:08 AM
> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> This doesn't really matter, and does not prove anything.
>
> The GOLD PARNTER can just pay someone say $50,000 on a W2 as a CCIE and
> for
> that I agree to let them USE my number, and do at least 1 conference call
> with their clients each month. There would be no way to tell how many
> hours
> the guy was there...
>
> That seems like fair use to me... How about you guys?
>
> Therefore, I am an employee. The deal is I'm never there, yet I still get
> paid. They get a CCIE's number for their roster and a low salary no sane
> CCIE would work for...
>
> ?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Vermillion
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:51 PM
> To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Hey Darren,
>
> The bottom line is that you cannot do what you're proposing. Last time
> this
> came up, I (or somebody - maybe it wasn't be after all) went and found the
> audit rules for partner status. Those made very, very clear that any CCIE
> numbers being used for partner status had to be *full-time* regular
> employees and that (IIRC), the auditor could review payroll records, etc,
> to
> validate that the CCIE was an active, daily participant in the business.
>
> I'm in the same situation. I work independently and thus my number
> floats.
> I don't really want to work in a partner/reseller environment, though, so
> that aspect of my number holds no value. Oh well...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darren Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:41 AM
> To: 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
> unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now in a
> position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent' out my
> CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my present
> employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical of it.
>
> Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if renting
> out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is possible/legal
> and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I want
> to
> get as much value out of my cert as possible.
>
> Thanks for ANY advice
>
> Darren
> #20078
>
>
>
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