From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Wed Feb 27 2008 - 17:09:45 ARST
I think for the critical masses it's decreased. Technical people continue to
be hounded by the total cost of ownership spectre. It's been sold
aggresively to companies over the years that one. A lot of management and
stakeholders can't 'get' what a lot of people are worth or do, but they can
get TCO easy enough. It makes a great pie chart.
There are still some good positions/salaries in permanent streams of work
but increasingly less technical in flavour, not as many and in some areas
diminishing. Contracting remains a potentially more lucrative prospect for
many CCIEs providing you can get the work, do the work and get around the
place but it is competitive. 10+ years of experience is not an uncommon
requirement nevermind a CCIE. On that note a recently obtained CCIE isn't a
hinderance at all especially if you already have significant experience. You
are at least familiar with the latest thing as opposed to AppleTalk and
source route bridging. That latter stuff may be helpful for legacy work but
regardless of if you are a low or high number experience is what the
industry wants now. The technologies are not young anymore and many of the
folks who sign off on the contracts and paychecks have been around a while
and are more savvy and demanding in terms of deliverables. They probably got
burned on one project or another in the past when the technologies were
young and so were the certified people they dragged in to setup and fix all
the new stuff, with mixed results i.e not enough field experience to go
around in those days. Hell, I remember one company advertising one job back
in 2001 requiring folks they took in to pass the CCNA in two weeks AND learn
VoIP on the job in the field fast or get laid off. And that's when a lot of
people with CCVPs today hadn't even heard of dial peers and destination
patterns much less Call Manager.
The challenge for many permy's is to decide if they are better off hanging
on with what they have (it may be so), or risking taking the plunge at a
time when recession by many accounts is looming.
No free rides in contracting these days. Most agents don't even take you out
to lunch anymore.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
To: "'Scott Vermillion'" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>; "'Darren Johnson'"
<dazza_johnson@yahoo.co.uk>; "'Cisco certification'"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> That's fair, I agree.
>
> But what I'm saying is the $100k offered to CCIE's is often inadequate (I
> mean come on, its nearly impossible to support a family on that income
> nowadays almost anywhere without being in debt)
>
> So what the guy needs is an extra $50k a year. What we should be talking
> about is what the hell happened that he can't just get $170k a year or
> more
> and just relax.
>
> I'll tell you...
>
> The value of someone who knows what they are doing just isn't there
> anymore... Did you see my post a couple of weeks back "CCIE required or
> will
> consider a STRONG CCNA" from a dice post.
>
> The value of the CCIE has decreased because IT is quickly losing its value
> to businesses (even though they need it).
>
> If you are out there, please, NRF, tell us again why IT will all be
> outshored to India very soon and that companies no longer have "in house
> electricians"...
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Vermillion
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:22 PM
> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Of course there always exists a way to cheat the system (just like the lab
> or the written) if someone is truly determined Joe. But the CCIE
> requirement for partners is meant to ensure high standards in the channel
> program. I believe that it's one of the few things still keeping CCIE
> salaries high, as there are hiring organizations out there that absolutely
> *must* retain CCIEs to keep their businesses viable. If what you propose
> were to become common, then CCIE salaries likely _would_ drop to the $50k
> mark, as rather than actually needing to hire them at $100k+, they could
> just go out and do this end-around on the program requirements and never
> actually hire any CCIEs with the intent that they act in a senior network
> engineering role. I think the symbiosis here between CCIEs and channel
> partners has to be respected or we all suffer (whether or not we
> personally
> chose to work for one)...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Brunner
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:08 AM
> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> This doesn't really matter, and does not prove anything.
>
> The GOLD PARNTER can just pay someone say $50,000 on a W2 as a CCIE and
> for
> that I agree to let them USE my number, and do at least 1 conference call
> with their clients each month. There would be no way to tell how many
> hours
> the guy was there...
>
> That seems like fair use to me... How about you guys?
>
> Therefore, I am an employee. The deal is I'm never there, yet I still get
> paid. They get a CCIE's number for their roster and a low salary no sane
> CCIE would work for...
>
> ?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Vermillion
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:51 PM
> To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Hey Darren,
>
> The bottom line is that you cannot do what you're proposing. Last time
> this
> came up, I (or somebody - maybe it wasn't be after all) went and found the
> audit rules for partner status. Those made very, very clear that any CCIE
> numbers being used for partner status had to be *full-time* regular
> employees and that (IIRC), the auditor could review payroll records, etc,
> to
> validate that the CCIE was an active, daily participant in the business.
>
> I'm in the same situation. I work independently and thus my number
> floats.
> I don't really want to work in a partner/reseller environment, though, so
> that aspect of my number holds no value. Oh well...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darren Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:41 AM
> To: 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
> unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now in a
> position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent' out my
> CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my present
> employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical of it.
>
> Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if renting
> out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is possible/legal
> and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I want
> to
> get as much value out of my cert as possible.
>
> Thanks for ANY advice
>
> Darren
> #20078
>
>
>
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