From: Scott Vermillion (scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com)
Date: Sat Feb 23 2008 - 20:36:18 ARST
I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that whole "CCIE IV" thing. My
point(s) being that Software Engineer IV being the most prevalent job title
at Cisco is not a bad thing (wouldn't want it to be any of the titles
typically held by CCIEs, or we wouldn't be all that special, now would we?)
and that the salary thing has to be viewed from the right perspective. SJ
is expensive. I understand from one recent survey that the average US
salary for a CCIE to be around $116k, but that includes many - most, no
doubt - who don't live in high cost of living locales such as SJ.
As for your comment about the SW weenies knowing as much about networking
technologies as CCIEs, I doubt that very seriously. I've worked
hand-in-hand with development teams (even having done a good share of their
requirements capture in one case) and you're typically dealing with very
specialized people working in a compartmentalized fashion. You don't have
one guy writing the EIGRP, OSPF, IS-IS, RIP, BGP and MPLS code on various
days of the week. Typically you have to force-feed them the knowledge for
their one little corner of the bigger picture. A CCIE, on the other hand,
doesn't get to be a R&S (EIGRP) CCIE. He or she knows them all and at quite
a deeply penetrating level.
I'm not sure who you directed the money remark at. I'm just joining in the
discussion here. But as a consultant who took several months off from paid
work, I *do* expect that the financial rewards be there. If I didn't have
that expectation, I wouldn't have been likely to be able to justify the lost
revenue of over half a year. We all have our own motivations for doing
things and I cringe when somebody comes along and tells me what my reasons
need to be for doing xyz. It's a bit presumptuous to say the least. Having
said that, if money is the *only* reason, you're less likely to meet your
goal, as it'll all but certainly show in the quality (or lack thereof) of
your work. I have a passion for this with or without the existence of a
CCIE program. I in fact worked in this industry for many years quite
content to not pursue the CCIE. When I did elect to pursue it, though, it
was for more than any given single reason (but enhanced income certainly was
one). Some have been fulfilled while the jury is still out on others...
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Galligan [mailto:pgalligan@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:08 PM
To: Scott Vermillion
Cc: nortic @hackermail.com; Joseph Brunner; Gary Duncanson; Alan Chng;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Moving away from Cisco
Could the people at Cisco that write the IOS code by classified as a
"Software Engineer IV"? How many people would have a job title of
"CCIE" anyway? Probably none, because CCIE is a certification not a
job title. So the IOS code writers could also be CCIE's. Even if they
aren't, you would expect someone writing IOS code to know at least as
much as a CCIE about networking technologies.
Anyway, if you're doing the CCIE for money, you're doing it for the
wrong reason IMO.
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Scott Vermillion
<scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com> wrote:
> That's pretty depressing on the surface, but recent salary surveys that
I've
> read suggest the average CCIE across the USA earns something *fairly*
close
> to that "Software Engineer IV" salary. But those guys and gals in the
> Fortune article are mostly concentrated in San Jose (over 16k at that
site
> alone!), which is arguably a pretty expensive place to live. My guess
would
> be that the average CCIE working at Cisco's SJ HQ earns quite a bit more
> than the software weenies (but a guess it would only be). I guess I'm
> thankful that the most prevalent position at Cisco was _not_ "CCIE IV"...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>
> nortic @hackermail.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:04 AM
> To: Joseph Brunner; 'Gary Duncanson'; 'Alan Chng'
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>
>
> Subject: RE: Moving away from Cisco
>
> When the most common job at cisco is a software engineer earning more
than
> the average ccie, you know there is no money in Cisco, perhaps its time
to
> up the silver/gold requirements to provide better paid jobs.
>
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2008/snapshots/6.html
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > To: "'Gary Duncanson'" <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com>, "'Alan Chng'"
> <ccieteam@gmail.com>
> > Subject: RE: Moving away from Cisco
> > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:52:52 -0500
> >
> >
> > I actually got the pleasure of meeting some financial field unix
> > infrastructure engineers. They develop something like webshere and
j2ee,
> > etc. I can guarantee no CCIE san/voice/security makes what these guys
> make.
> > Even working in IRAQ, etc.
> >
> > I nearly fell off my chair when I heard what their bonus plan is. I
even
> > felt that tingling burning under my tongue I haven't felt since a good
> > school yard fist fight... They said it best "there is no money in
Cisco".
> > They are dead right.
> >
> > Every day I'm more and more convinced we are in a field where there is
> > little distinction between a clown CCNP who comes in and breaks
> everything,
> > and a CCIE who knows real world issues and rfc's both like the back of
his
> > hand.
> >
> > Oh, well, definitely diversify... and read up on those two... maybe
this
> is
> > your lucky day...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> > Duncanson
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:03 AM
> > To: Alan Chng
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: Moving away from Cisco
> >
> > Why not?..variety is the spice of life. Besides I already work with
lots
> of
> > different vendors as do many others on the list.
> >
> > Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan Chng" <ccieteam@gmail.com>
> > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:23 PM
> > Subject: Moving away from Cisco
> >
> >
> > > Fellow experts,
> > >
> > >
> > > Considering the amount of time and 'sacrifice' made to
achieve
> the
> > > CCIE and make our mark in the networking field, would anyone here
> > > contemplate on moving to a role supporting another vendor (e.g.
Alcatel,
> > > Tellabs, Ericsson) ??. I'm referring to a role which requires
in-house
> > > training to learn the intricacies, proprietary protocols and CLI of
the
> > > vendor and be completely "isolated" from the Cisco world. I'm
> discounting
> > > Juniper since I tend to see them in the same market segment.
> > >
> > > Would anyone do it? And if so, what would be the factor? Better
> opportunity?
> > > Less competition? Another challenge?
> > >
> > > I find the switchover challenging as I believe a lot of us started
the
> CCIE
> > > journey more as a hobby and through the course of the time and
developed
> a
> > > familiarity to the IOS, not to mention the resources, information,
> > > forums/communities that are widely available today.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any opinions will be much appreciated
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Alan
> > > CCNP/IP/SP, R&S due in May
>
> >
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Get your free email from http://www.hackermail.com
>
>
-- Certain techniques work on a motorcycle. Other techniques don't, and they hurt
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Mar 01 2008 - 16:54:49 ARST