From: Joseph Brunner (joe@affirmedsystems.com)
Date: Fri Feb 22 2008 - 14:10:32 ARST
If you know security why not try the GSE?
Think the CCIE security or CISSP is anything like that?
(READ the papers of the 10 or so holders around the world... I'm sure you'll
See the CISSP for what its worth)
-----Original Message-----
From: Diment, Andrew [mailto:Andrew.Diment@qwest.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:37 AM
To: Gary Duncanson; Joseph Brunner
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Moving away from Cisco
Don't confuse passing the CISSP test with being 'certified', they are
two different things. You can pass the test but to be certified you
must have at least 5 years experience in two of the 10 domains. I am a
CCIE (#10685) and I'm 5 weeks away from taking the CISSP exam. This
certification is very highly regarded in the Information Security field.
One of the top Master's of Information Assurance programs at Norwich
University (accredited by the NSA, DoD and Homeland Security) will now
give you credit for one semester if are a CISSP. And the program is
taught by the experts in the field, most if not all are PhD's. That
should give you some idea for the value the CISSP holds. Go to
monster.com, pick a city, and search with key work 'ccie' and then
'cissp'. The latter usually has as many or more jobs available.
It is called 'a mile wide and an inch deep' because it covers a vast
amount of topics. It is not an in-depth technical cert. like the CCIE
Security. But take into consideration the configuring firewalls and
VPN's is actually a very small part of Information Security. Knowledge
and experience are the cake, certifications are the icing. Nuff
said...back to the main issue.
I work in a TAC environment. Of course I work with a lot of Cisco
products but I also work with some Adtran, Carrier Access and Nortel
products. I get paid for what I know and can figure out more than what
particular product I'm working on. Personally I would keep Cisco as the
majority of the internetworking and AVVID products I work on because I
have over 10 years invested in Cisco and they are by far the majority of
the market share, but it never hurts to broaden your horizon. In the
security field Cisco is actually at the lower end. I soon will be doing
the CCIE security labs just to increase my knowledge. I doubt I'll
bother with the lab test, but you never know. At least it will count
toward the needed continuing education credits for the CISSP recert. :)
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Gary Duncanson
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:48 AM
To: Joseph Brunner
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Moving away from Cisco
I agree that many CISSP holders wouldn't know how to start hardening a
network. Like you point out it's not primarily technical (or vendor
specific) like for example the CCIE Security and seemed to attempt to
fill a space years after networks have been exploited in a multitude of
different ways with an increasing multitude of attacks and mitigation
methods constantly emerging. Perhaps it would be futile for the CISSP
(or any certificate for that matter to attempt to keep up with all
that), so it tries to cover 'domains' without being too deep to provide
reference points.
To what extent it does that well is debatable.
The CISSP has been one of those things on my backburner for a while now.
I can never seem to find enough reasons to do it. Im still debating if
I should put the time in to pass what by many accounts is a 'silly
exam'.
Perhaps I might learn something, who knows. There are people who believe
it is a bu11sh1t certification but then it isn't supposed to be
technical is it? More a tick box for the management types who like to
see a certification for everything. At least that's what I have heard
from people who have the cert. And yes a lot of people have the cert who
don't have the necessary experience...A mile wide and an inch deep is a
phrase I hear a lot about the CISSP.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
To: "'Lab Dude'" <ccielabdude@gmail.com>; "'Alan Chng'"
<ccieteam@gmail.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: Moving away from Cisco
>I think the CISSP (ISC2) is utterly useless. Several of my CCNA
students
> have been active CISSP's. Their knowledge of even basic acl's, storm
> control
> techniques, attack mitigation methods and other such issues is simply
not
> there. Worse, even things like "alice and bob", why we have asymmetric
key
> encryption, key escrow systems, and basic theory surrounding the
nist/aes
> selection criteria that led to rijndael besting other ciphers was
either
> not
> tested on the CISSP, or not presented in a meaningful way to allow the
> candidate to learn how to apply the theory to the real world practice.
I
> made it a point of getting as much information from them as possible.
I
> can
> say the cert has no practical, theoretical or logical use in a modern
> security marketplace.
>
> I need a firewall, two-form factor authentication, and 1 class "ABC"
rated
> dry fire extinguisher for every 450 square feet of data center
space... I
> need a cert to tell me that?
>
> The more CISSP's I meet the more confident I feel the CCIE Security is
the
> excaliber. Why swing an inferior sword in battle?
>
> The CISSP was obviously created to give non-technical folks the
ability to
> get billing rates for EY and other Brooks brother's catalog body shops
who
> fill my clients conference rooms with paper boxes and force me to
teach
> them
> how to put a wpa key into windows.
>
> Nuff' said.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Lab
> Dude
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:53 AM
> To: Alan Chng
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Moving away from Cisco
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> I personally think that as a Network Support
> Engineer/Consultant/Architect/Designer one needs to have a diversified
> portfolio. By that I mean being familiar with a variety of different
> vendors
> products and technologies in order to be successful at what you do,
> assuming
> you don't only work with a single vendor equipment/technology all the
time
> at your day job. I personally wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one
> basket, unless I work for a particular vendor and have no choice but
to
> pursue that vendor's products/technology :-)
>
> Lets face it, Cisco is the leading vendor at this time when it comes
to
> Data
> Networking (Enterprise and SP space both) with Juniper as the next
major
> competitor. Working towards CCIE is great, and I personally think that
one
> needs to have at least CCIE R&S along with 5-6 years of hands-on
> experience
> with Cisco kit. I think CCIE R&S gives you a good solid exposure to
core
> Cisco technologies. If you feel that you work more with other aspects
of
> Cisco (like SP, Security, Voice etc) on a day to day basis, then
either
> one
> of those CCIEs would be a good option to pursue after you get your
CCIE
> R&S.
> I personally don't recommend getting more than 2 CCIEs (at max) unless
you
> plan to work at Cisco TAC, or as a NCE/SE at Cisco. Most large
> organizations
> are multi-vendor these days and usually prefer candidates who have had
> exposure to different vendor kit with the ability to think outside the
box
> :-)
>
> In the SP and Enterprise space, Juniper is the leading competitor of
> Cisco.
> Hence, if you plan to target SP or Enterprise space (which is where
most
> networking folks are focused at currently), I would get some form of
> Juniper
> certification (along with some hands-on experience) to back it up
along
> with
> a CCIE R&S. This would help increase your marketability. From a
potential
> employers perspective, 2x CCIE might be better than 1xCCIE R&S and
some
> other vendor certification (for instance Juniper) along with some
hands-on
> experience of both vendors to back it up. Theres no point in getting
> multiple certifications without any real hands-on experience with the
> particular vendor kit. Its almost as good as not having the
certification.
>
> If you are focusing on Security space, after getting your CCIE R&S,
maybe
> you might want to focus on getting CCSP first, then CCIE Security.
Once
> you
> have achieved CCIE Security (or are working towards it), you might
want to
> consider other Security certifications like CISSP (ISC2) or some Check
> Point
> stuff (like CCSA or CCSE).
>
> These days Wireless/WiMax is hot too. Might be worth exploring options
in
> that area, if you want to diverge from Cisco/Juniper.
>
> Going for other vendors like Alcatel, Lucent, Siemens, Tellabs,
Ericsson
> might be good, but I would explore the job market for folks with that
> vendors technology in isolation, and check out the salary range and
skills
> demand etc. There is no point in focusing on *a* particular vendor in
an
> attempt to shy away from Cisco/Juniper, just to find out that you are
> limiting your job scope, and future job/growth prospects.
>
> My two cents.
>
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2008 12:23 PM, Alan Chng <ccieteam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fellow experts,
>>
>>
>> Considering the amount of time and 'sacrifice' made to
achieve
>> the
>> CCIE and make our mark in the networking field, would anyone here
>> contemplate on moving to a role supporting another vendor (e.g.
Alcatel,
>> Tellabs, Ericsson) ??. I'm referring to a role which requires
in-house
>> training to learn the intricacies, proprietary protocols and CLI of
the
>> vendor and be completely "isolated" from the Cisco world. I'm
discounting
>> Juniper since I tend to see them in the same market segment.
>>
>> Would anyone do it? And if so, what would be the factor? Better
>> opportunity?
>> Less competition? Another challenge?
>>
>> I find the switchover challenging as I believe a lot of us started
the
>> CCIE
>> journey more as a hobby and through the course of the time and
developed
>> a
>> familiarity to the IOS, not to mention the resources, information,
>> forums/communities that are widely available today.
>>
>>
>> Any opinions will be much appreciated
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>> CCNP/IP/SP, R&S due in May
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