From: Alexandre Ribeiro (alexandregomesribeiro@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Feb 21 2008 - 14:06:33 ARST
Over the last four years I've worked mainly at L1/L2 and L2.5 (MPLS, mostly
Martini draft). I'm working at a vendor (Nokia Siemens Networks) and our
focus is mainly on telecom operators. Is L1/L2 as much fun as L3? Well, it's
different, but equally fun.
New technologies like PBT and T-MPLS appeared because MPLS doesn't scale
from an OPEX point of view, so, for PBT, we dumbed down Ethernet (no MAC
learning, no STP, etc), so that it now appears more like ATM than Ethernet.
This in turn means that we now have a whole new set of problems to deal
with, like devising a control-plane to set up PBT tunnels on an NMS, since
currently there's no control plane for PBT (G-MPLS is planned though).
So, I absolutely agree with Scott. There's a lot of fun to be had in all of
OSI's levels :-)
Alex
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 12:39 AM, Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> I'm still not sure I entirely "get it". In order to be trained (or at
> least
> to be useful IMHO) in a technology, one would presumably want to be
> clueful
> about the different implementations and important differences that may
> occur
> because of it.
>
> I certainly appreciate the idea of needing good L1/L2/MPLS folks out
> there,
> but to learn any technology without the idea of how reality intervenes in
> a
> deployment with actual equipment is very shortsighted.
>
> There are some significant differences in capabilities of Cisco vs.
> Juniper
> vs. Riverstone vs. whoever when it comes to MPLS design and deployment
> ideas. And I'd even further that point telling you that the routing
> protocols truly are important to any good MPLS deployment. At least
> assuming you're going to do TE and/or VPN's and other fun stuff.
>
> From the standpoint of things changing... Well, there's certainly always
> the chance for that! :) But could you still be happy without it?
> Absolutely!
>
> It's all about what your short-term goals are, and what your long-term
> goals
> are and determining how you'll get there.
>
> HTH,
>
> Scott
>
> _____
>
> From: Alan Chng [mailto:ccieteam@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:29 PM
> To: smorris@ipexpert.com
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Moving away from Cisco
>
>
> Thanks for all the overwhelming responses.
>
> FYI, I've had the pleasure to work for Cisco and a few large
> organizations(SP and enterprise), and absolutely had a ball of a time esp
> over whiteboard discussions...
> This also includes picking up other vendor skills such as F5, NetApp and
> Juniper and I certainly agree with Scott's statement that CCIE teaches you
> the interworkings of protocols rather than the IOS, which is more like
> what
> CCNA caters :)
>
> Reason I mention abt moving away from Cisco is a recent opportunity with
> another vendor advertising CCIE-level candidate but willing to be trained
> &
> involved in purely Layer 1-2, 2.5(MPLS) for migrating customers from
> legacy
> ATM, FR, TDM networks to the IP/MPLS core. L2VPN stuff basically no IP VPN
> or anything IP related except management perhaps.
>
> Obviously, financial benefits will be justified for the switchover and
> perhaps you become a Subject Matter Expert, so in that sense I mean you're
> not one of the many but become one of the 'few'. Yet the thought of not
> working with routing protocols, or IP does twiddle my mind a bit. The fun
> level just seems to dip a bit ;-)
>
> The fact I'm discounting Juniper is I see them as equivalent to Cisco
> since
> the 'protocols' are simply applied in a different manner as prev stated.
>
> Has anyone been in similar circumstances, made the leap and walked away
> smiling? The industry we're in is so fast-paced that stepping away for a
> couple years can mean a lot of lost time. just look at the CCIE numbers
> these days ~ :)
>
>
>
>
> On 2/21/08, Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
>
> I suppose the first question would be why you were discounting Juniper.
> The
> second would be why it had to be a rold of complete isolation?
>
> Either way, one of the nice things is that the basic technologies (for the
> most part) are pretty much the same vendor to vendor. You'll have CLI
> differences, you'll have different intracacies and proprietary things, but
> most stuff won't vary that much.
>
> So (IMHO) it's a mistake to look at the CCIE as simply a familiarity with
> IOS. That's a secondary feature. You've likely learned more about things
> like OSPF, BGP and multicast operations than you normally would. The fact
> that you can do it in IOS is nice, but doing it in JUNOS isn't all that
> much
> different. The theory is mostly the same.
>
> If you're looking for something ENTIRELY different (you note less
> competition, so one has to wonder) then I suppose it would simply be a
> matter of what happens to interest you at any point in time. In which
> case,
> the CCIE has become a lesson of process and/or troubleshooting. Both
> skills
> which should not be underestimated.
>
> From a consultant's viewpoint, I always look at things to ADD to my
> skillset, but it would have to be one hell of an opportunity for me
> (again,
> just my opinion) to completely forego all the stuff I've learned.
>
> Good luck no matter what you end up doing though!
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE-M
> #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>
> A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
>
> smorris@ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Alan
> Chng
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:23 AM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Moving away from Cisco
>
> Fellow experts,
>
>
> Considering the amount of time and 'sacrifice' made to achieve the
> CCIE and make our mark in the networking field, would anyone here
> contemplate on moving to a role supporting another vendor (e.g. Alcatel,
> Tellabs, Ericsson) ??. I'm referring to a role which requires in-house
> training to learn the intricacies, proprietary protocols and CLI of the
> vendor and be completely "isolated" from the Cisco world. I'm discounting
> Juniper since I tend to see them in the same market segment.
>
> Would anyone do it? And if so, what would be the factor? Better
> opportunity?
> Less competition? Another challenge?
>
> I find the switchover challenging as I believe a lot of us started the
> CCIE
> journey more as a hobby and through the course of the time and developed a
> familiarity to the IOS, not to mention the resources, information,
> forums/communities that are widely available today.
>
>
> Any opinions will be much appreciated
>
> Regards,
> Alan
> CCNP/IP/SP, R&S due in May
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