From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Thu Nov 08 2007 - 00:03:13 ART
I must have missed Michael's reponse below (or the caffiene has worn off)...
But to some extent I agree that there are people out there who are know
details but can't apply them. But no matter what profession you look at,
there will be good ones and there will be bad ones. CPA's. Doctors.
Lawyers. Whatever... Life goes on, and the people who want things bad
enough will learn things better than others will.
I've known people who have changed entire ISPs for their network, reset
their NAT and all the "router" things perfectly fine. Then they were amazed
when other things didn't work right like their e-mail or web servers because
they forgot to update the DNS servers and didn't know a thing about timers
involved. I've seen companies almost go out of business because of things
like this. Stick around long enough, and you'll always hear/experience
stories. :) (Just don't cause them, and life is good!)
Anyway, back to caffeine.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Narbik Kocharians
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:32 PM
To: Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
Cc: Amir.Tahir/Wateen/Lahore; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
I totally agree with Michael Jones, i find it hard to believe any of these
stories, so why are you guys going for your CCIEs? and why is Jesse putting
CCIE in brackets after his name?
On 11/7/07, Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661) <jlogginsccie@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Amir unfortunately in my opinion there is a small flaw in the lab process.
> I
> don't think it's one that is easily resolved without making the
> certification process tedious and drawn out.
>
> I too was shocked as you are when in the past I worked with a 3 x CCIE
> who caused numerous outages because he did not understand the
> significance of things such as the OSPF Database, protocol timers,
> what would happen to traffic if you cleared a NAT table, etc. One
> thing is for sure though this guy had a great capacity to memorize
> things. I watched him Cert MCSE in 3 days. But the outages that he
> caused was a direct result of his lack of experience in real world
> environments, or as I like to call it "seeing how protocols react in
> the wild". One thing to keep in mind as you go through your studies.
> What you see in the lab is a totally different animal when you
> introduce user traffic and real world applications. And it is this,
> that most of the individuals that I was speaking of lacked. And in my
> opinion it is this experience that one should have before one attempts
> a CCIE.
>
> I'll step off of my soap box now...... :-)
>
> Jesse Loggins
> CCIE #14661(R&S)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amir.Tahir/Wateen/Lahore" <Amir.Tahir@wateen.com>
> To: "Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)" <jlogginsccie@san.rr.com>
> Cc: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:48 AM
> Subject: RE: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> Swiss
>
>
> Dear Jesse,
>
> You gave us a shock. I am preparing R&S CCIE and when I came across
> such e-mail I could not convenience myself that a person lacking basic
> knowledge could pass CCIE LAB. If he himself study & prepare for it
>
> Still can't answer myself why they became CCIE.... if they could not
> even resolve basic things and who will hire them.....
>
> ______________
> Amir Tahir
> Zonal Manager
> Service Delivery & Support
> Engineering Division
>
> 4th Floor, New Auriga Complex,
> Main Boulevard, Gulberg, Lahore, Pakistan
> Mob: +92-322-4002647
> Email: amir.tahir@wateen.com
> Website: www.wateen.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Jesse Loggins (CCIE#14661)
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:08 AM
> To: tom nohwa; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise,
> Swiss
>
> As a CCIE who has the responsibility of interviewing other CCIE's here
> is my take. One of the things that I have run across allot lately, are
> CCIE's with no practical experience. In my opinion this is partly
> because Lab Prep material is so prevalent and easily attainable. I
> have come across many CCIE's that could not tell me how to physically
> connect to a router to configure it. That is they had no idea what the
> console port is. Another one is not knowing how to upgrade the IOS on
> a router. Also it is amazing how many CCIE's don't understand IP, as
> in how things work. For instance one of my interview questions it to
> ask a CCIE candidate to explain to me how traceroute works. Or another
> is to explain the significance of MTU in a real world network. Most
> of the time I get an incorrect response. Why do I ask these questions?
> Because to me it shows how much real world experience a
>
> candidate has. In my opinion a CCIE candidate should have at least 2
> to
> 5
> years of experience before pursuing a CCIE. They should also work
> there way from CCNA to CCNP and then to CCIE, learning the
> technologies as they go
>
> (not just using test prep material). Reading all of the books in the
> suggested CCIE reading list for your specific track is also another
> thing that I would suggest. And it never hurts to read through the
> RFC's (in my opinion as a CCIE your should do this no questions). I
> say this all to suggest that the interviewer that asked you these
> questions may have had the same purpose in mind. In my opinion the
> number of inexperienced CCIE's on the market right now are really
> hurting the credibility of our coveted certification. That seems to be
> the reason why many of us are starting to pursue multiple CCIE's to
> distinguish ourselves. In the past multi-CCIE's where rare, but now
> they seem to have become a necessary thing. I say this as I prepare to
> take the Service Provider CCIE lab in a few days.
>
> As a side note I asked the last CCIE that I interviewed (he was a
> recently cert'd CCIE) to explain to me how the mac-address-table (CAM
> table for you old salty CCIE's :-) ) on a switch is populated. His
> response (this came
>
> after numerous questions he could no answer) was "Dude have you been
> studying lately?", I laughed and told him Thanks for his time.
>
>
> Jesse Loggins
> CCIE #14661 (R&S)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom nohwa" <tom.nohwa@gmail.com>
> To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 4:34 AM
> Subject: CCIE Important Interview Quesition asked by Sunrise, Swiss
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This is to explain you my job search experience happened in Swiss
> after
> > acquiring my CCIE. I am not sure how many of you have come across
> similar
> > situation.
> >
> > I started my CCIE journey in the beginning of last year and passed
> > the
> lab
> > a
> > few months ago. Later, I started contacting the ISPs, most of them
> never
> > responded. I got an interview from one ISP which is the second
> largest
> > ISP
> > (Sunrise) in Swiss. During the interview, they did not ask any tech
> > questions, instead they asked whether I would be *able to lift the
> router
> > and fix it in the rack.* I was astonished to hear this question,
> > but
> I
> > said
> > I would do it during the emergency situation. Then, I was asked to
> wait
> > for few weeks. Few weeks later, I got the response that my French
> skill
> > was very poor.
> >
> > I have now the following questions to my fellow experts:
> >
> > 1. I have seen only the English version of Cisco IOS. Do you know
> any
> > French version?
> > 2. Having 10+ years experience in networking and holding a degree
> > in networking from the world famous university, I was never asked to
> answer
> > any
> > tech question. Instead, question like lifting the router and fixing
> it in
> > the rack, always irritate me. Is this type of question asked to
> > irritate/insult the CCIE?
> > 3. Is it normal that companies don't respond to an CCIE's job
> > applications (of course my nationality is mentioned in my CV)?
> >
> > Please let me know your comments as I hear that CCIEs are highly
> respected
> > everywhere.
> >
> > Best,
> > Joe.
> >
> >
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-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 www.Net-WorkBooks.com
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