From: Jian Gu (guxiaojian@gmail.com)
Date: Fri Nov 02 2007 - 18:35:00 ART
GS and Netpro forum, I don't think I will ever need a third forum.
On 11/2/07, CITE Administrator <cite.group@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> Appreciate your thoughts, but I don't see how it is "competing" if it
> serves
> a different purpose. People will still go to Groupstudy to talk about the
> lab, talk about off topic subjects, talk about the weather, and everything
> in-between. I'm proposing a forum by which a lot of these OT subjects
> will
> not garner flaming or annoyance from members. In fact, I want to enable
> these "how do you configure CS-MARS to send an email notification when
> someone unauthorized enters the data center" types of questions. I know
> you
> (or anyone else, for that matter) wouldn't agree this is a subject that is
> Groupstudy.com related. In fact, how many posting replies have we seen
> that
> state, "This is not a forum for consulting assistance. Please look
> elsewhere..."
>
> I would estimate I was one of the first 500 to 1000 members of Groupstudy
> and I've seen the growth, been through the list server migration, seen the
> big evolution from just sending off topic posts to our requiring an "OT"
> heading in the Subject field. And yes, I've seen countless vendors vie
> for
> superiority as the premier lab study resource (and all the controversy
> therein). There is a legitimate need, in my opinion, to live outside of
> the
> CCIE lab. If all the OT was legitimate Groupstudy subject matter, then
> why
> is it necessary to classify subject matter as "OT"? No, there is a
> driving
> mission to the Groupstudy lists, and it's pretty naove to say that it
> serves
> all purposes, when it clearly does not.
>
> As the CITE administrator, I'm not proposing an either/or scenario, nor am
> I
> saying group loyalties have to be exclusively chosen. I'm proposing
> cohabitation and comingling. In fact, if someone found the CITE list and
> didn't know about Groupstudy (for some odd reason), I would happily refer
> them to ask their CCIE-related questions here by joining this list. In
> fact, I do believe that it would be a beneficial thing to be a member of
> both lists. I know I would never leave this list for all that it brings.
>
> That s my $.02,
>
> Eddie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Brad
> Ellis
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:11 PM
> To: Joseph Brunner; cisco@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Lunch...Join the technical experts forum!
>
> Joe,
>
> I've been staying out of these types of threads, but your response is
> priceless. Harsh, but true.
>
> I think the big issue is the use of groupstudy to promote a "competing"
> type of a site. Paul works hard to maintain his site and nothing is more
> disturbing than when someone uses his site to promote a competing or
> commercial site. I've known Paul for years, and he hasn't stooped to the
> point of whoring out his site for lots of $$$ to a commercial company
> with self interests. Paul's intentions have always been good. So don't
> take advantage of Paul's kindness and if you can't follow his rules,
> stay off his site. :)
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Brunner
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:59 AM
> To: CITE Administrator; cisco@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: "CITE" Launch...Join the technical experts forum!
> Importance: Low
>
> So basically you're creating a haven for people too cheap to purchase
> proper
> tac support?
>
> I'm too dumb|lazy|busy getting a Bl*wjob to read the documentation on
> cisco's site, so I'll just ask my experienced, filtered, and accredited
> colleagues...
>
> Don't tell me you're looking for a raise and a bonus too come January,
> right?
>
> The good Cisco engineers can figure it all out on their own. The Great
> ones
> can figure it out, and not let anyone know how they did it.
>
> And regarding your statement on "7 years Cisco experience" as apposed to
> the
> certs... we'll I have found out just because someone has been doing
> something for 7,8,9,10,20 or more years, doesn't mean they are any good
> at
> it. So that group will probably suck if you are letting in "experienced"
> people with no certs...
>
> At least groupstudy is pushing us all to where we should be
> ccna->ccnp->ccie
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> CITE
> Administrator
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 10:20 AM
> To: cisco@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: "CITE" Launch...Join the technical experts forum!
>
> Paul,
>
> No disrespect intended. You certainly have a great list here; one I've
> been
> a part of for a long time and have appreciated all the help and
> knowledge
> from while pursuing my CCIE studies. But maybe this one time, your
> concern
> is misplaced and you have not thoroughly researched this thread and its
> purpose.
>
> As a long time member, I've found that (and I think many will agree) the
> major theme of the groupstudy list has always come back to the fact that
> it's a study group for either the CCIE lab or one of the other Cisco
> certifications (i.e. the Cisco@groupstudy.com).
>
> I have--personally--posted many times here when I have trouble with my
> an
> ASA configuration or MARS installation. I've also asked things about
> scenarios which occur in my real-life work occurrences. In most every
> situation, I receive either "push back", resistance, or never receive an
> answer because it's either not relevant to the lab (or to studies),
> people
> don't know the answer, or people are just plain not wanting to see this
> kind
> of content on this mailing list. I can't count how many emails I've
> seen in
> the past month with the subject heading "real world" on it, and it's
> been
> quite a common occurrence through the years.
>
> I was simply trying to create another resource dedicated for this
> purpose--real world, real life situations that don't have anything to do
> with studying for a certification, and even open to talking about other
> technologies.
>
> It was not meant to challenge or become competition to this group;
> rather,
> be an additional resource for the group members (those of whom would
> probably find the most benefit from). If you wanted to create and
> manage
> this particular list and have it a part of another groupstudy mailing
> list,
> then by all means that would be fine with me (less work for me).
> However,
> if you are implying ignorance is the best rule-of-thumb, and that
> groupstudy
> is the be-all, end-all of anything and everything Cisco and
> networking-related, then that is like trying to create a socialistic
> environment where there's no flexibility, evolution or growth available
> outside of your control.
>
> I have seen many CCIE study vendors here posting various topics in a
> "strategic" way to get people to use their materials; I've seen
> recruiters
> and headhunters sending emails to try and post jobs and such when they
> should be exclusively using the "jobs" list. Likewise, I have seen many
> people posting their own troubleshooting configurations when they really
> should not have. Who can deny that there are certain topics that are
> not
> *supposed* to be discussed here?
>
> I would hope/think you and many others would see this as an opportunity
> for
> growth and evolution; and not as a form of contention/competition.
> Should
> we let the group decide, as we always have whether this endeavor is
> useful?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Paul
> Borghese
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:05 AM
> To: cisco@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: "CITE" Launch...Join the technical experts forum!
>
> I pay over $400/month in server and access fees and all I ask of you is
> that
> you respect what I have built. I have been running GroupStudy since
> 1998
> and have never once posted to another private list encouraging people to
> join GroupStudy. Yet ever six months or so we get someone posting on
> GroupStudy encouraging people to join their "new and better" list. I
> have
> yet to see one of those actually succeed.
>
> If you do not like what I have done here, fine move on. But filling up
> multiple lists with messages encouraging people to move to your own list
> is
> really unacceptable. If you were hosting a party would you appreciate
> someone passing out flyers advertising another "better" party across the
> street?
>
> If you want to build your own community .. that is great. Just do so on
> your own dime.
>
> Frankly, the knowledge base on GroupStudy is astounding and I really do
> not
> see how taking a subset of that knowledge is going to be any
> improvement.
> But, to each his own.
>
>
> Take care,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> CCIE
> #17302
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:22 PM
> To: cisco@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: OT: "CITE" Launch...Join the technical experts forum!
>
> A lot of this is still a WiP, but we have the foundations of the group;
> I'm
> sure it will evolve over time. Please be patient regarding any bugs.
>
> For those of you who have already signed up at LinkedIn, please ensure
> your
> full work history is listed in your profile. Also, an email will be
> sent to
> you with further instructions regarding the online certification tool.
>
> For everyone: please remember that we are trying to create an "elite"
> community (shall we say, "elitist?" :), so acceptance will be carefully
> evaluated. As stated earlier, the purpose is to weed out the
> entry-to-mid
> level knowledge in favor of more complex and advanced experience.
>
> Ok, here we go!
>
>
> ******* GROUP NAME *******
>
> CITE (Consortium of Information Technology Experts)
>
> ******* PURPOSE/OVERVIEW *******
>
> To provide a technical support resource for all group members based on
> real-life/real-world scenarios, and whose members consist of technical
> experts with a primarily Cisco-based background. All members should
> exhibit
> the highest standards of excellence, professionalism, and quality in
> regards
> to posting/emails and other correspondence. The group will strive to
> maintain the highest levels of integrity and exclusivity regarding group
> member evaluation and acceptance.
>
> LinkedIn provides the public aspect of the group's identity, as well as
> an
> association to an established and respected community.
>
> Google Groups provides the vehicle by which the questions, answers, and
> ideas are exchanged
>
> ******* MEMBER REQUIREMENTS *******
>
> 1. Certified as a CCNA or CCDA in the past *
> 2. 7 years or more of direct Cisco industry experience
>
> * If candidate has not achieved CCxA status, then they must receive a
> referral from at least two CCIEs verifying their Cisco technical
> expertise/knowledge, in the form of an email to the group administrator
>
> ******* MEMBERSHIP PROCEDURES FOR NEW MEMBERS *******
>
> 1. If not already existing, create a LinkedIn profile containing full
> work
> history
>
> 2. Follow this URL to request access to the group:
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/39670/694BBF19E9C9
>
> 3. On the ensuing page, click the "notify group manager" link to send an
> email request for membership. You will receive an auto reply that will
> contain further instructions on certification validation.
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
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