From: sheherezada@gmail.com
Date: Mon Oct 22 2007 - 08:14:01 ART
Yeah, I know that kind of person, too. He took the R&S at age 22,
only by experience (4 years at that time), reading UniverCD and
labbing. Few months ago, it took him only several weeks and a good
workbook to pass both Security and SP (OK, by now he has 10 years
experience). The morale of this story is that a good workbook may
help even geniuses when they do not have too much time.
Mihai
On 10/18/07, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> Relax, take a deep breath Darby...
>
> I'll tell you a secret... all the smartest people that shook me up, didn't
> use a workbook... they were like...
>
> "hmm, ok, I'll read the rfc's, lab up everything on univercd from the
> blueprint, take my own notes, study those, schedule my lab and pass this
> easy test on the first attempt".
>
> Three of them did. One only a year ago.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:18 AM
> To: Brian Dennis; Ananth Vk; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Lab Query
>
> Brian makes an excellent point.
>
> Repetition is the key to learning. No doubt and as he
> states in his COD, "plenty people who go to the lab
> multiple times... tend to go cause they buy a lot of
> workbooks... rush through them or just follow along...
> etc. basically call it studying and go to the lab...
> and fail... shaking their heads...
>
> Yep, been there and done that.
>
> I once wrote a little piece on how to do the lab on a
> budget somewhere... like a poor man's guide to the
> CCIE Lab and yes... I even recommended using 2514's...
> with a 12.2.x T-Train of code... I mean even the
> Cisco CCIE team said as much at or about the same
> time...
>
> But I digress...
>
> My point is:
>
> Each vendor offers a sample lab. A full sample lab.
> It is complete with a full answer key...
>
> Yep - Take 4-5 vendors...
>
> You have 4-5 complete labs and very good ones at that.
>
> With excellent answer keys and typically with a lot of
> commonly misunderstood topics... like mostly any
> given vendor lab - they all come stacked with
> challenging topics right?
>
>
> Now suppose...
>
> 1. You have 4-5 full demo labs...
>
> 2. You've taken the time to read Doyle v1 at a minimum
> and v2 at a maximum... and Clark.
>
> 3. Now suppose you decide to stretch the envelope a
> bit... just a little...
>
> Now I'm not suggesting you'll be able to build some of
> the masterpiece labs that our fine and much more
> experienced vendors have taken a lot of time an effort
> to create for us...
>
>
> But I am saying that if a given person, any given
> person, did 4-5 of these sample labs, from different
> vendors (different thought patterns, styles, and even
> topologies), that this enlightened soul would
> understand so much more before than just blindly
> throwing money at the labs... again, been there and
> done that too.
>
> However, if a candidate who is serious takes a few
> sample labs and master's them, this candidate is now
> fully prepared to take advantage of whichever vendor's
> materials he/she likes best.
>
> IPExpert, InternetworkExpert, NMC, Narbik, IEmentor,
> etc. even offer a wealth of information per site to
> help candidates with very very seemingly difficult
> tasks...
>
> Prefix-lists
> And/OR/Xoring
> FRTS
> Route Maps
> Redistribution
> BGP - iBGP/eBGP
> Mutlicast
> NTP
> Frame Relay
> Native VLANs
> And the list is positively enourmous...
>
> Really, and it is available moslty for the time it
> takes one to view it.
>
> Now, I'm not saying not to buy any vendor's labs, but,
> I am saying any and every candidate should take the
> time to perhaps even do these labs a few times and
> work out the issues each of the vendor's know are
> trouble spots for their previous students, so much
> that they even give it away for free.
>
> By this time, you know whose product you like, and you
> know whose style appeals to you best as well.
>
> It is fair to all vendors, and mostly it is fair to
> the actual buyer - you.
>
> This is what I'd consider my best advice from someone
> who has been to several vendors and holds stock in
> several vendors prodcuts and wishes them, each an
> every one, to continue to have a thriving business.
>
> Personally, I like insight and getting the most
> vantage. This might not work for everyone but it
> works for me.
>
>
> Hope this helps a bit.
>
>
> Tomas Larus wrote an excellent paper and published it
> on lulu.com that only required 1 switch and was a bit
> timeless... It gives a person a lot of perspective to
> see more than one vantage point.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Brian Dennis <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>
> wrote:
>
> > If I personally was going to take a test and I saw a
> > lot of people saying
> > they used a certain "method" to prepare that enabled
> > them to pass the
> > first time around I surely would at least look into
> > using that "method".
> > Of course we know that not all methods work for all
> > people so I may take
> > this certain method and modify it to fit my learning
> > style.
> >
> > As a side note a new highly successful approach that
> > we (Internetwork
> > Expert) are recommending to certain candidates is
> > taking only 5 or 6 full
> > scale labs but doing them 4 or 5 times each. Then
> > during the last week or
> > two before the real lab taking 2 or 3 additional
> > full scale labs and doing
> > them once or twice each. This approach should get
> > you to the point where
> > you can do any of the 5 or 6 labs within 4 hours and
> > be able to complete
> > the additional 2 or 3 labs within 5 to 5.5 hours.
> > You would be amazed at
> > the amount you can learn by doing a lab more than
> > once. Plus one of the
> > big benefits with this approach is that you gain
> > speed and accuracy
> > (accuracy = correct configuration the first time
> > around) which is
> > important in passing the lab.
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
> > bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
> >
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > Subject: Lab Query
> > Date: Wed, October 17, 2007 19:03
> > From: "Ananth Vk" <ananth.vk@tcs.com>
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > There are a lot of practice labs available for the
> > lab from different
> > > vendors..
> > > Lets say i have practiced 10 labs that are complex
> > & say im
> > confident,then
> > > how to determine if my 11th one has to be the real
> > lab / another practice
> > > lab
> > >
> > > Whats the main take away with the practice labs ?
> > > Is it the practice in number of practice labs/
> > complexity in topology/
> > > types of questions asked ?
> > > Cos i sometimes read that a person passed lab in
> > first attempt & he
> > read
> > > books + a specific vendor material....
> > > Then whats the differentiator in the real lab that
> > puts many people down
> > > though they had many workbooks to practice with
> > them ?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Ananth
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