From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct 15 2007 - 20:22:11 ART
Hell yea
On 10/15/07, darth router <darklordrouter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I do not mean to be rude, but I think we can get away with discussing any
> aspect of the CCIE on this board (correct me if I am wrong). Why even
> bother
> replying to it if you dont like it? Darby makes a lot of good points often
> enough. Everyone should be able to voice their opinion, right?
>
> DR
>
> On 10/15/07, John Jones <acer0001@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Since I am busy, I'll keep this short -
> >
> > Why fill everyon'e Inbox with useless things? Why not use GS for helping
> > each other pass this **mn exam? This is what this email list was
> deisigned
> > for. If something is OT: why put it here?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > On 10/15/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > What makes you think I'm not? Just because I do not
> > > have to ask how to do something, does not mean I am
> > > not prepping for my own lab.
> > >
> > > I guess we'll see if my efforts hold water on my next
> > > visit.
> > >
> > > Later
> > >
> > > BTW - I try to use OT - for things OT. You can filter
> > > them.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- John Jones <acer0001@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > As I have said before...
> > > >
> > > > Darby, if you put as much energy into studying as
> > > > you do writing these
> > > > emails, you'd be done with the CCIE process by now
> > > > and moved on. I thought
> > > > this was a technical board...
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/15/07, Joseph Brunner
> > > > <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Nobody can do the ccie in 5-6 weeks... stop making
> > > > this board a troll
> > > > > board.
> > > > >
> > > > > "from the help desk to architect role at a fortune
> > > > 500 company" ??!??!?!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you think it's that easy... unless you have a
> > > > video of the CIO blowing
> > > > > his Tennis partner, and his wife is wasp Teutonic
> > > > storm trooper you lack
> > > > > the
> > > > > leverage needed to make even that happen with your
> > > > newly minted
> > > > > "Pennsylvania Zip code" ccie.
> > > > >
> > > > > Half of the emails I open now from GS CCIE R&S
> > > > contain non-technical
> > > > > issues...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, everyone back to stuff we came here for...
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> > > > [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > > > Farhan Anwar
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:18 AM
> > > > > To: Darby Weaver
> > > > > Cc: smorris@ipexpert.com; nrf; Guyler, Rik; Gary
> > > > Duncanson;
> > > > > ccielab@groupstudy.com; Usankin, Andrew; Rahmlow,
> > > > Howard F.;
> > > > > sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett, Michael; Brad
> > > > Ellis;
> > > > > cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis;
> > > > security@groupstudy.com;
> > > > > comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
> > > > > Subject: Re: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > > > >
> > > > > Darby, now you are scaring us all. Why you have to
> > > > be so true ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/14/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With all the available materials nowadays...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These guys will spend more money on a latte at
> > > > their
> > > > > > local Starbucks while they study than they do on
> > > > even
> > > > > > buying a workbook to study CCIE Labs topics
> > > > from...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, I guess they actually have to buy the
> > > > laptop for
> > > > > > Dynamips...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But let's face it...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you can spend next to nothing in cash outlay
> > > > and go
> > > > > > from the HelpDesk to the Architect Role... at a
> > > > > > Fortune 500 or named company...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And do it in 5-6 weeks...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Especially since the halo-effect may keep other
> > > > people
> > > > > > from challenging someone at the door...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This cert is the greatest enabler ever... no
> > > > doubt in
> > > > > > my mind...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not a bad thing, if a person works hard to earn
> > > > it,
> > > > > > but...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After enough bad apples spill from the tree...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One bad apple spoils the bunch...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Used to be the CCIE was "THE TICKET"... now
> > > > things are
> > > > > > going to be changing...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, this seems to be the of things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It scares me when I agree with Darby. ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Scott
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Darby Weaver
> > > > [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:15 AM
> > > > > > > To: nrf; Guyler, Rik; 'Gary Duncanson'
> > > > > > > Cc: Scott Morris; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
> > > > Darby
> > > > > > > Weaver; Usankin, Andrew;
> > > > > > > Rahmlow, Howard F.; sheherezada@gmail.com;
> > > > Burkett,
> > > > > > > Michael; Brad Ellis;
> > > > > > > cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis;
> > > > > > > security@groupstudy.com;
> > > > > > > comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
> > > > > > > Subject: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NRF,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hmmm...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think everyone should interview their job
> > > > > > > candidates. Simple.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No halo-effect. Go get your CCIE on staff or
> > > > hire
> > > > > > > your Gold Partner's CCIE
> > > > > > > and interview properly in the first place.
> > > > Simple.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That my friend would put a damper on people
> > > > just
> > > > > > > thinking a CCIE by itself
> > > > > > > is a lotto ticket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As long as a Help Desk Person (or any person
> > > > aka
> > > > > > > unemployed) can spend a little time studying
> > > > > > > honestly (or worse -
> > > > > > > Braindumping the Written and then obtaining
> > > > NDA
> > > > > > > violations - on GS or
> > > > > > > elseplace) and then obtaining the current
> > > > $1715.00
> > > > > > > to take both tests...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And go from $7-14.00 per hour (rates of some
> > > > help
> > > > > > > desk employees, or others)
> > > > > > > and go to...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > $50,000.00-80,000.00 CCIE Sweatshop Rate and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > $80,000.00 - $125,00.00 or more...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > with all the perks...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In 30-90 days and pass on the first try
> > > > (making
> > > > > > > legitimate candidates look
> > > > > > > inept)...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yep, Houston we have a problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You see the people who have time to conduct
> > > > research
> > > > > > > and obtain those items
> > > > > > > will always have an advantage over the Network
> > > > > > > Engineer who is gainfully
> > > > > > > employed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now... I wish it were different but it is not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've read a lot of posts where people are
> > > > passing
> > > > > > > the lab really quickly, in
> > > > > > > a few months even, and making it look easy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Meanwhile, many of us on this list and
> > > > elsewhere,
> > > > > > > have spent years prepping
> > > > > > > by buying books, labs, going to classes,
> > > > trying to
> > > > > > > find time just to
> > > > > > > practice and still may take multiple attempts
> > > > to
> > > > > > > pass the lab.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And let's face it, sometimes after we have
> > > > studied,
> > > > > > > despite those poor
> > > > > > > practice lab results, we somehow think we
> > > > might get
> > > > > > > lucky and just pass the
> > > > > > > lab... this time...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kinda like an addicted gambler... playing a
> > > > slot
> > > > > > > machine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So the lab attempts add up, why - cause we had
> > > > a
> > > > > > > little disposable cash and
> > > > > > > the clock is ticking.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But hey, if you are the person who can get the
> > > > stuff
> > > > > > > you need to just bang
> > > > > > > out the written and then bang out the lab in
> > > > just a
> > > > > > > few scant weeks and
> > > > > > > summarily pass the lab on the first try.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess you ought to be making the top $$$
> > > > just for
> > > > > > > having the guts to try
> > > > > > > to pull it off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also think, that these same tpyes of persona
> > > > will
> > > > > > > be using stuff like
> > > > > > > Dynamips soon and as such...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could theoretically, pass the written/lab
> > > > within say
> > > > > > > 30-60 days or so and
> > > > > > > never have even seen a router on their first
> > > > try
> > > > > > > even.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now that's pitiful but with a Dynamips Lab,
> > > > one can
> > > > > > > load gear faster
> > > > > > > (virtual) and setup a scenario or series of
> > > > > > > scenarios.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would not matter if there were 10 labs per
> > > > year in
> > > > > > > the real lab or if there
> > > > > > > were 50 labs per track.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They would just create a config and type them
> > > > over
> > > > > > > again until it was done.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brute force but hey...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > $14,000.00 per year versus $150.000.00 per
> > > > year.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who would blame them. Never mind people in a
> > > > third
> > > > > > > word country where the
> > > > > > > situation is even more drastic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've heard rumors about Australia granting
> > > > > > > citizenship based on the CCIE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've met a man in the U.S. who immigrated from
> > > > a
> > > > > > > Mulsim Country to Germany
> > > > > > > and fromt there to Canada and from Canada to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > U.S. -> All based on
> > > > > > > advanced certs including the CCIE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So NRF, if people are not going to review a
> > > > > > > candidate's resume and be
> > > > > > > willing to ask the hard questions, these guys
> > > > are
> > > > > > > going to be working as
> > > > > > > CCIE's and maybe not for long, they may get
> > > > fired
> > > > > > > from time to time, but
> > > > > > > envetually, they will get better or they will
> > > > burn
> > > > > > > out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But they are here now. And good interviewing
> > > > > > > techniques will weed them out,
> > > > > > > one by one. If they are blacklisted then...
> > > > it
> > > > > > > might help some.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I still recall the story of the CCIE who
> > > > passed in
> > > > > > > like 4 months... He went
> > > > > > > to a trainig center in India for like 4-6
> > > > weeks and
> > > > > > > then to the U.S. for
> > > > > > > like 3-5 weeks and maybe a few things in
> > > > between.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > He passed on like his 2nd try in about 4
> > > > months or
> > > > > > > so.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did not waste his seat. I think he is still
> > > > unable
> > > > > > > to get a job... sad...
> > > > > > > so much time and money gone trying.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wow!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pretty much true story. There are lots more
> > > > where
> > > > > > > that one came from.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So expect that those seats are gonna be filled
> > > > for a
> > > > > > > long time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, wanna change that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There's a little sneaky way...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Next time everyone one on this lists gets a
> > > > salary
> > > > > > > survey...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fill it out. Yep.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yep $10,000.00 per year annual salary.
> > > > > > > No benefits
> > > > > > > Boss yells at me and makes me clean latrines,
> > > > since
> > > > > > > he thinks that all the
> > > > > > > bits and bytes go down the tubes.
> > > > > > > Expected to work 10-12 hours a day every day.
> > > > > > > No vacation in 10 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Really sucks being a CCIE, but at least I have
> > > > a job
> > > > > > > an the bombs are not so
> > > > > > > bad at night.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It sounds extreme, but if we keep painting a
> > > > rosy
> > > > > > > picture, then...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The people who want roses for nothing will
> > > > keep
> > > > > > > hammering away at the
> > > > > > > petals.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now it may take a couple of years... tell
> > > > people
> > > > > > > the market is saturated.
> > > > > > > Too many CCIE's and not enough CCENTs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hah!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whatever it takes...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ouch!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Farhan Anwar
> > > > > www.farhananwar.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 www.Net-WorkBooks.com
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Nov 16 2007 - 13:11:15 ART