From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Sun Oct 14 2007 - 15:07:48 ART
It scares me when I agree with Darby. ;)
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Darby Weaver [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:15 AM
To: nrf; Guyler, Rik; 'Gary Duncanson'
Cc: Scott Morris; ccielab@groupstudy.com; Darby Weaver; Usankin, Andrew;
Rahmlow, Howard F.; sheherezada@gmail.com; Burkett, Michael; Brad Ellis;
cheffner@certified-labs.com; Brian Dennis; security@groupstudy.com;
comserv@groupstudy.com; Eric Dobyns
Subject: OT Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
NRF,
Hmmm...
I think everyone should interview their job candidates. Simple.
No halo-effect. Go get your CCIE on staff or hire your Gold Partner's CCIE
and interview properly in the first place. Simple.
That my friend would put a damper on people just thinking a CCIE by itself
is a lotto ticket.
However:
As long as a Help Desk Person (or any person aka
unemployed) can spend a little time studying honestly (or worse -
Braindumping the Written and then obtaining NDA violations - on GS or
elseplace) and then obtaining the current $1715.00 to take both tests...
And go from $7-14.00 per hour (rates of some help desk employees, or others)
and go to...
$50,000.00-80,000.00 CCIE Sweatshop Rate and
$80,000.00 - $125,00.00 or more...
with all the perks...
In 30-90 days and pass on the first try (making legitimate candidates look
inept)...
Yep, Houston we have a problem.
You see the people who have time to conduct research and obtain those items
will always have an advantage over the Network Engineer who is gainfully
employed.
Now... I wish it were different but it is not.
I've read a lot of posts where people are passing the lab really quickly, in
a few months even, and making it look easy.
Meanwhile, many of us on this list and elsewhere, have spent years prepping
by buying books, labs, going to classes, trying to find time just to
practice and still may take multiple attempts to pass the lab.
And let's face it, sometimes after we have studied, despite those poor
practice lab results, we somehow think we might get lucky and just pass the
lab... this time...
Kinda like an addicted gambler... playing a slot machine.
So the lab attempts add up, why - cause we had a little disposable cash and
the clock is ticking.
But hey, if you are the person who can get the stuff you need to just bang
out the written and then bang out the lab in just a few scant weeks and
summarily pass the lab on the first try.
I guess you ought to be making the top $$$ just for having the guts to try
to pull it off.
I also think, that these same tpyes of persona will be using stuff like
Dynamips soon and as such...
Could theoretically, pass the written/lab within say 30-60 days or so and
never have even seen a router on their first try even.
Now that's pitiful but with a Dynamips Lab, one can load gear faster
(virtual) and setup a scenario or series of scenarios.
Would not matter if there were 10 labs per year in the real lab or if there
were 50 labs per track.
They would just create a config and type them over again until it was done.
Brute force but hey...
$14,000.00 per year versus $150.000.00 per year.
Who would blame them. Never mind people in a third word country where the
situation is even more drastic.
I've heard rumors about Australia granting citizenship based on the CCIE.
I've met a man in the U.S. who immigrated from a Mulsim Country to Germany
and fromt there to Canada and from Canada to the U.S. -> All based on
advanced certs including the CCIE.
So NRF, if people are not going to review a candidate's resume and be
willing to ask the hard questions, these guys are going to be working as
CCIE's and maybe not for long, they may get fired from time to time, but
envetually, they will get better or they will burn out.
But they are here now. And good interviewing techniques will weed them out,
one by one. If they are blacklisted then... it might help some.
I still recall the story of the CCIE who passed in like 4 months... He went
to a trainig center in India for like 4-6 weeks and then to the U.S. for
like 3-5 weeks and maybe a few things in between.
He passed on like his 2nd try in about 4 months or so.
Did not waste his seat. I think he is still unable to get a job... sad...
so much time and money gone trying.
Wow!!!
Pretty much true story. There are lots more where that one came from.
So expect that those seats are gonna be filled for a long time.
Now, wanna change that?
There's a little sneaky way...
Next time everyone one on this lists gets a salary survey...
Fill it out. Yep.
Yep $10,000.00 per year annual salary.
No benefits
Boss yells at me and makes me clean latrines, since he thinks that all the
bits and bytes go down the tubes.
Expected to work 10-12 hours a day every day.
No vacation in 10 years.
Really sucks being a CCIE, but at least I have a job an the bombs are not so
bad at night.
It sounds extreme, but if we keep painting a rosy picture, then...
The people who want roses for nothing will keep hammering away at the
petals.
Now it may take a couple of years... tell people the market is saturated.
Too many CCIE's and not enough CCENTs.
Hah!
Whatever it takes...
Ouch!
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