From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Wed Oct 10 2007 - 12:36:40 ART
I imagine the market might soon be flooded with assessor leaks and study
guides as it is with real lab material. The problem with the written is the
dumping done by so many candidates who then scheduled lab slots. Other than
that I think it's a great little test. If you put the work in preparing for
the written properly without dumps it will help your lab preparations. It
certainly helped mine. There are many things that pop out of the labbook
I'm using that I can reference to the careful (and time consuming) reading I
did months ago to clear the written.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Burkett, Michael" <Michael.Burkett@c-a-m.com>
To: "Brad Ellis" <brad@ccbootcamp.com>; <smorris@ipexpert.com>; "Christopher
M. Heffner" <cheffner@certified-labs.com>; "Eric Dobyns"
<eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>; "Brian Dennis" <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>; <security@groupstudy.com>;
<comserv@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> If you are talking about evaluating readiness before you are allowed to
> book the real exam break the CCIE track into three parts.
>
> Step 1
> Pass CCIE Written Qualification Exam
> Step 2
> Pass Assessor Type Exam, 2-3 hours, via remote equipment that can only
> be accessed from you local Cisco office, so no notes cannot be used, and
> its monitored to keep exam integrity. Don't pass this you can even
> schedule the Real Lab.
> Step 3
> CCIE Lab Exam, with 60 days between attempts.
>
> Michael Burkett
> CCIE#17084
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Brad Ellis
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 3:46 PM
> To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
> Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> Scott,
>
> I understood what you were referring too; ie, someone's readiness to
> take the lab exam. I think the written exam should do a better job of
> reflecting this "readiness" level.
>
> I'm waiting to see that last "notch" that's going to be on top of the
> CCIE. Can you imagine the wait time to schedule an exam for a review
> board run format? Could be a 2-3 year waiting period. :)
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
> Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:44 PM
> To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> I'm not talking about the written/qualification exam. I'm talking about
> when someone goes into the lab!
>
> The written isn't supposed to be a measure of someone ability at the
> lab.
> It never was. It's always been a differentiator between theory
> knowledge
> and doing/application knowledge.
>
> I'd keep the written the way it is. I actually like the new written
> exam (a
> little too much EIGRP still, but all in all good). It's just the 8-hour
> timeframe in the lab that I would like to see changed, and that's the
> part
> that is best suited for filtering anyway.
>
> With all the testking, et al companies out there selling the exam and
> all
> the testing centers that you can go to, there's not any good way to
> control
> people on that exam. So wait till they come in for the big one. That's
> the
> "do or don't do" place.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE-M
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>
> A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
>
> smorris@ipexpert.com
>
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:36 PM
> To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
> Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> Scott,
>
> I agree with you 100%. The main problem is the "qualification exam" ie,
> the
> "written exam" isn't a very good measure of an engineer's readiness to
> attempt the lab exam. I think there needs to be a legitimate
> qualification
> exam that truly can attest to the level of the engineers competency. For
> CCIE R&S, there used to be wireless on the written exam.
> Now there is MPLS on the written. Both technologies not being covered by
> the
> lab exam. How is this an accurate measure of the engineer's abilities to
> attempt the lab exam? It's not! There needs to be a more accurate
> measurement in place. Once that happens, I think the wait time between
> attempts will diminish. I also think the length of time you have to wait
> between attempts should correlate to your last lab exam score.
> Opening up some more testing centers wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just
> my
> $.02
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
> Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:34 PM
> To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> If they want to make serious progress in that idea, then they'll take a
> different approach.
>
> 1. Start with a troubleshooting lab. 1-2 hours. If you can't figure
> enough things out to fix, you obviously don't know what's going on and
> shouldn't get to the "real" lab.
>
> 2. Shorten the real lab to 6-7 hours. People who don't make
> troubleshooting won't even see the real thing and therefore can't
> possibly
> copy/memorize it 'cause they went home early.
>
> Taking the same lab again is only helpful if you've figured out the
> answers
> and can actually make things work! But splitting things up like this
> will
> give a higher test of people's deep understanding of technologies rather
> than any sort of memorization for stuff going on.
>
> Just my thoughts. But raising the price or increasing the time between
> labs
> will irritate more good people than it will deter the ones you are
> trying to
> keep out.
>
> Some people know how things work, others do not. Filter based on that!
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE-M
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>
> A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
>
> smorris@ipexpert.com
>
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Brad
> Ellis
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:40 PM
> To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> It might suck, but that would definitely solve a bunch of problems:
>
> 1) It would make it much harder for those "real test sites" to get
> updates
> 2) The backlog wouldnbt be so bad - there would be a lot more seats
> available
> 3) People would stop using the "take the test every 30 days until I
> pass"
> technique. I know a few folks who have taken the lab like that 8 or more
> times until they pass. (This method gives a high percentage of "same
> lab"
> possibilities.)
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
> Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher M. Heffner [mailto:cheffner@certified-labs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:07 AM
> To: Brad Ellis; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> Now that would really "suck" big time!
>
> Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
>
> www.certified-labs.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:22 PM
> To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> I've heard that Cisco may change their re-take policy from 30 days to 6
> months for failed tests...but just rumors so far.
>
> thanks,
> Brad Ellis
> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> CCSI# 30482
> CEO / President
> CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
>
> Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Christopher M. Heffner
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:32 AM
> To: Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> Importance: Low
>
> Please DON'T give them any ideas.
>
> This is an expensive enough profession.
>
> Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
>
> www.certified-labs.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Dobyns [mailto:eric_dobyns@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: 'Brian Dennis'; Christopher M. Heffner
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> Right now, I think they could charge twice that and still fill up their
> seats.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Brian Dennis
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:22 PM
> To: Christopher M. Heffner
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
>
> Someone "announced" it here a few weeks ago ;-)
>
> Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
> bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
>
>
>
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Christopher M. Heffner wrote:
>
>> Did anyone else notice the lab price increase made by Cisco for the
>> CCIE Labs?
>>
>>
>>
>> I noticed when checking lab dates that the price for the lab is now
>> $1400.00 per attempt.
>>
>>
>>
>> I donbt see any announcement on the CCIE website for the price
>> increase.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this just being quietly changed without an announcement?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Christopher M. Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
>>
>> Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>> HYPERLINK "http://www.certified-labs.com/"www.certified-labs.com
>>
>>
>>
>> b(*
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
>> 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
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> _____________________________________________________________________
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> 10:08 AM
> b(*
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> 10/3/2007
> 10:08 AM
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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