From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Wed Oct 10 2007 - 09:29:55 ART
I think the point Chris is making is that it seems to be something between
Hitesh and Cisco. If you fight hard enough, there are always appeals
processes, but that is something that's up to him to pursue and not for us
to debate.
We can all get fired up about it and decide how unfair life is, and perhaps
after reading the thread below decide that Hitesh is being wronged by
someone lying and has no recourse, but the bottom line is that other than
the e-mail presented to us we have absolutely no idea what did or did not
happen there.
While I think it is great that Cisco takes all these things very seriously,
and has some fairly serious repercussions for those who violate the rules of
conduct (that we all sign in agreement to), I also know that they take their
investigations fairly seriously and are not just going to jump in with that
harsh of a punishment if it were not warranted.
While Cisco cares about what we think, it is not their policy to involve the
general public in an internal security matter. We do not get to be a jury
of Hitesh's peers. If he wants that sort of consideration, then there are
always civil legal remedies which he could pursue.
Why should we be asking how arbitrary the process is? It's kinda like
asking how arbitary the grading process is. Did the proctor not like the
way my hair was combed that day, or did I not smile enough or say "Good
Morning" fast enough?
If we all spend time worrying about things that:
1. We can't possibly know or assume anyway
2. We can't possibly control either
3. We can't know whether it's simply our cosmic karma instead of Cisco's
policy anyway
Then we're just going to get stressed out for no particular reason.
Concentrate on the studying, take the test, be professional, and life will
be good. If anyone here individually becomes involved with something like
outlined below, THEN they obviously have a right to be
upset/concerned/whatever and then they will truly know the facts involved
with it. Until then, we are all simply bystanders in the game and seeing
one (potentially jilted) side of the story.
I've been around the CCIE program, and know many of the people involved, and
I can assure you that I have no reason to believe there is any arbitrary
treatment of situations like this occurring.
Just my thoughts...
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE-M
#153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
smorris@ipexpert.com
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Darby Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 3:02 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com; cisco@groupstudy.com
Subject: OT: Re: !!!! Banned by Cisco !!!! [7:126999]
Chris,
Contrar my friend. I have seen personally that the CCIE Developement team
does watch these this forum with interest and with intent.
They do care about the program.
They do care about what we think - we are something like a customer... old
fashioned concept.
Now from what I have read thus far, our friend was apparently confronted
about this incident in the lab.
As was at least one other person. So the proctor had his reasons no doubt
for thinking as he did.
This is very serious and could affect the way we enter the lab exam in the
future.
Apparently a "note" or "notes" were found and those notes were "not on the
paper given by the proctors".
Now if our friend here is innocent and did not bring notes to the lab, that
is one thing.
If he he did, then it is another.
The problem is what can a person do if he/she did not bring notes but were
accused of doing so?
There really is very little recourse.
However, we as CCIE candidates want to believe in the integrity of the
program as a whole and in our proctors.
I, for one, have always found the proctors to be very professional and very
helpful.
This person is concerned about his career and should be, since this is a
serious offense.
Cisco is concerned about the integrity of the entire CCIE program, as we all
should be.
From the treads I've read up to know, and I've seen the email chain, the
Cisco Security Team probably have a strong case and it seems they took a
little while to properly weigh the options.
Banning someone for life and stripping all certs is pretty serious.
The question we all should be asking is "how arbitrary is the process"?
Even if a student is expelled for cheating from a College Campus, they still
have some rights.
Cisco makes their case clear - break the rules and you are banned for life -
per the lastest CCIE update.
It is their program, but it is also ours. We all have significant
investments in time and money too.
The vendors here have incredible amounts invested.
Everyone who takes the time and commits the effort has a lot invested.
While we do not want to give cheaters any breaks, we still should want a
fair process.
However, I still think the CCIE Proctors would never risk their integrity or
career on making such a mistake and the situation is probably well-founded.
Remember, what are the odds that 4 people taking the lab have the same lab
or even are taking the same track for that matter.
So...
Just sitting around not sleeping and decided to chime in.
All any of has is an opinion.
Since only a few people were there, only those folks know the facts.
--- Chris Tevlin <nobody@groupstudy.com> wrote:
> Hitesh,
>
> I'm unclear what you hope to gain by posting this thread here. It
> seems to me that there isn't any member of this study group that can
> directly influence the decision made by Cisco Systems. Under the
> circumstances, I find the practice of posting your dialog with Cisco a
> bit distasteful. You are certainly free to post what you'd like, but
> know that public opinion is a double-edged sword; you may not achieve
> much sympathy. If you truly feel that you have been unfairly accused,
> you must appeal to the decision authority directly. Keep in mind that
> your conduct inside the exam is what has been called into question,
> but your conduct outside of the exam is also likely to matter if any
> further consideration is undertaken by Cisco.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
> ""Hitesh Panchani"" wrote in message
> news:200710091607.l99G7jHU002598@groupstudy.com...
> > sad.gif
> > BANNED BY CISCO
> > sad.gif
> >
> > I was told by forum in Sadikhov to post my problem
> here.
> >
> > I did CCIE lab exam and not receiving result with
> in 48 hr so I contact
> > Cisco support desk. They told me I didn't done lab
> yet. I told them this
> > is
> > my 3rd attempt for lab and I couldnb?Tt receive my
> result yet. It is more
> > then 48hr and I couldnb?Tt receive my result and I
> couldnb?Tt open my CCIE
> > login. Cisco did open my case cert case. Told by
> helpdesk some one will
> > contact in 48hr but still no contact in 48hr so I
> did contact Cisco again
> > they said there is database have problem your case
> is passed to IT staff
> > and
> > they will take 5 working days to respond. AS soon
> as database fix will
> > give
> > you update. After 5 days they didn't contact so I
> made contact again and
> > helpdesk told me Head of IT is dealing with your
> case and it took 7 days
> > to
> > investigate why database is missing. I made
> contact after 7days then Cisco
> > helpdesk says your case is in security officer
> they will contact in 10
> > day.
> > So we are closing your case now and you have to
> wait for security team
> > response they will send you mail or letter. I
> received mail from CISCO as
> > below:
> >
> > Via Federal Express and [Electronic Mail]
> >
> > Hitesh
> > Candidate ID 207489284
> > *******@hotmail.com
> >
> > Address
> > United Kingdom, Europe
> >
> > Re: Violation of CCIE Candidate Conduct
> Policy-Possession of notes during
> > exam
> >
> > Dear Hitesh,
> > I am writing to you on behalf of Cisco, Inc.
> (b?oCiscob? ). It has come
> > to
> > our attention that on September 9th 2007 your CCIE
> Lab exam proctor
> > discovered notes regarding exam question
> configurations at your assigned
> > testing station. The proctor reported that upon
> confronting you with
> > these
> > notes that you admitted they belonged to you. As
> you should be aware,
> > possession of notes during testing is a violation
> of the Candidate Conduct
> > Policy which states:
> >
> > b?oNo candidate will take any action that will
> compromise the integrity or
> > confidentiality of a Cisco Certification
> examination or otherwise
> > compromise
> > the integrity of the Cisco Certification program.
> Such actions include but
> > are not limited to:
> > Using any aids, notes, equipment or other
> materials not authorized by the
> > TestingDelivery Partners or Cisco during the
> exam.b?
> >
> > You signed a Cisco Career Certification and
> Confidentiality Agreement
> > that
> > prior to your exam. To paraphrase this agreement,
> Cisco may at its sole
> > discretion revoke any and all Certifications you
> may have earned, and
> > permanently ban you from earning future
> Certifications if Cisco
> > determines,
> > in its sole discretion, that you have undertaken
> or participated in any
> > action that compromises the integrity and
> confidentiality of an
> > examination
> > or the Program.
> >
> > As a result, you are hereby permanently prohibited
> from taking any Cisco
> > examinations, including CCIE written and
> laboratory examinations, and any
> > Cisco certifications with VUE, Ciscob?Ts
> Authorized Testing Delivery
> > Partner. Access to your candidate records in the
> Certifications Tracking
> > System is also denied.
> >
> > The intention of Cisco career certifications is to
> ensure high standards
> > of
> > technical expertise. Achieving Cisco
> certificationb?"at any levelb?"means
> > joining the ranks of skilled network professionals
> who have earned
> > recognition and respect in the industry.
> Maintaining the integrity of
> > Cisco
> > certification programs and ensuring that only
> qualified individuals
> > receive
> > certification is in the interest of everyone.
> >
> > Thank you for your cooperation.
> > Sincerely,
> > Kathe Saccenti, CCIE 2099
> > Mgr, Operations - Labs
> > Learning@Cisco.com
> > Cc: VQS JW
> >
> > REPLY FROM CISCO AFTER I REPLAYED TO ABOVE EMAIL
> >
> > As I stated in the letter I sent you, we reserve
> the right to deny
> > testing to individuals that violate our policies.
> > The report and the evidence submitted, correspond
> fully to your
> > configurations.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Hp***** [mailto:hp*****@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:16 AM
> > To: Kathe Saccenti (ksaccent)
> > Subject: Re: CCIE Notification
> >
> > Hi Kathe
> >
> > I deny any wrong doing with any cisco
> certification. I was called up by
> > the proctor after he had called the other
> candidate first, he presented
> > me with a piece of paper, said to be found on my
> desk. I denied it
> > immediately as I would be cheating with myself
> first. Proctor mention
> > there was a "access list" on that piece of paper,
> to which I said "can I
> > see it" reply "no" at some point in proctor
> mention that "if it not
> > your, you do not need to worry about it", at that
> point I left the
> > building. Proctor told me that somebody will
> contact me within 48hrs
> > will contact me, which never happen, that why I
> raised the ticket
> > (070911-000286)on 11 Sep 2007, not knowing what
> department to contact I
> > started the general query.
> >
> > I left my work in NOV 2006 to pursuit my long term
> plan of obtaining the
> > CCIE. I have been planning to become CCIE since
> 2000 and gradually
> > getting closer to my goal (my life achievement).
> If you look at your
> > records, this was my third attempt, and I was
> willing to one more
> > attempt before giving it up. The concept of these
> labs is to understand
> > the technology first and later configuration
> command.
> >
> > I realised the importance of the standards set by
> the CCIE
> > qualification. I would appreciate if you would
> reconsider your decision.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Hitesh
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Nov 16 2007 - 13:11:13 ART