From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Oct 09 2007 - 21:56:12 ART
May be an incremental wait period would be good where if you fail for the
first time you can retake the test after 30 days and if you fail again its
be 2 months and so forth. I also like to see them synchronize the protocols
in the written and the lab exam, because the idea is that you get tested on
the theory and then the practical aspect of the theory, whereas, now these
are two different things all together and some of the protocols covered by
the written is not covered by the lab.
But to get ride off TestKing and firms alike, they should do a verbal test
covering the theory, maybe a 2 hour deal, where a proctor comes over and
tests 10 students in two or three days. This will make both tests a little
more honest.
On 10/9/07, Colin McNamara <colin@2cups.com> wrote:
>
> I am all for scheduling something akin to the assessor lab to test
> performance prior to scheduling a date. Brute force should only be used
> to test passwords, not get your CCIE #.
>
> --
> Colin McNamara
> (858)208-8105
> CCIE #18233
> "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little
> longer"
>
> On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 17:31 -0400, Scott Morris wrote:
> > IMHO that will actually scare most people. And I'm sure they'll come up
> > with some difficult criteria to meet before you even get to that point
> of
> > scheduling such that there isn't a backlog like that.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:46 PM
> > To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
> Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > I understood what you were referring too; ie, someone's readiness to
> take
> > the lab exam. I think the written exam should do a better job of
> reflecting
> > this "readiness" level.
> >
> > I'm waiting to see that last "notch" that's going to be on top of the
> CCIE.
> > Can you imagine the wait time to schedule an exam for a review board run
> > format? Could be a 2-3 year waiting period. :)
> >
> > thanks,
> > Brad Ellis
> > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > CCSI# 30482
> > CEO / President
> > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> >
> > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:44 PM
> > To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > I'm not talking about the written/qualification exam. I'm talking about
> > when someone goes into the lab!
> >
> > The written isn't supposed to be a measure of someone ability at the
> lab.
> > It never was. It's always been a differentiator between theory
> knowledge
> > and doing/application knowledge.
> >
> > I'd keep the written the way it is. I actually like the new written
> exam (a
> > little too much EIGRP still, but all in all good). It's just the 8-hour
> > timeframe in the lab that I would like to see changed, and that's the
> part
> > that is best suited for filtering anyway.
> >
> > With all the testking, et al companies out there selling the exam and
> all
> > the testing centers that you can go to, there's not any good way to
> control
> > people on that exam. So wait till they come in for the big one. That's
> the
> > "do or don't do" place.
> >
> >
> > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE-M
> > #153, CISSP, et al.
> > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> >
> > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
> >
> > smorris@ipexpert.com
> >
> > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > http://www.ipexpert.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:36 PM
> > To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian
> > Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > I agree with you 100%. The main problem is the "qualification exam" ie,
> > the
> > "written exam" isn't a very good measure of an engineer's readiness to
> > attempt the lab exam. I think there needs to be a legitimate
> > qualification
> > exam that truly can attest to the level of the engineers competency. For
> > CCIE R&S, there used to be wireless on the written exam.
> > Now there is MPLS on the written. Both technologies not being covered by
> > the
> > lab exam. How is this an accurate measure of the engineer's abilities to
> > attempt the lab exam? It's not! There needs to be a more accurate
> > measurement in place. Once that happens, I think the wait time between
> > attempts will diminish. I also think the length of time you have to wait
> > between attempts should correlate to your last lab exam score.
> > Opening up some more testing centers wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just
> > my
> > $.02
> >
> > thanks,
> > Brad Ellis
> > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > CCSI# 30482
> > CEO / President
> > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> >
> > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:34 PM
> > To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > If they want to make serious progress in that idea, then they'll take a
> > different approach.
> >
> > 1. Start with a troubleshooting lab. 1-2 hours. If you can't figure
> > enough things out to fix, you obviously don't know what's going on and
> > shouldn't get to the "real" lab.
> >
> > 2. Shorten the real lab to 6-7 hours. People who don't make
> > troubleshooting won't even see the real thing and therefore can't
> > possibly
> > copy/memorize it 'cause they went home early.
> >
> > Taking the same lab again is only helpful if you've figured out the
> > answers
> > and can actually make things work! But splitting things up like this
> > will
> > give a higher test of people's deep understanding of technologies rather
> > than any sort of memorization for stuff going on.
> >
> > Just my thoughts. But raising the price or increasing the time between
> > labs
> > will irritate more good people than it will deter the ones you are
> > trying to
> > keep out.
> >
> > Some people know how things work, others do not. Filter based on that!
> >
> > Just my two cents.
> >
> >
> > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> > JNCIE-M
> > #153, CISSP, et al.
> > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> >
> > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
> >
> > smorris@ipexpert.com
> >
> > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > http://www.ipexpert.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Brad
> > Ellis
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:40 PM
> > To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > It might suck, but that would definitely solve a bunch of problems:
> >
> > 1) It would make it much harder for those "real test sites" to get
> > updates
> > 2) The backlog wouldnb t be so bad - there would be a lot more seats
> > available
> > 3) People would stop using the "take the test every 30 days until I
> > pass"
> > technique. I know a few folks who have taken the lab like that 8 or more
> > times until they pass. (This method gives a high percentage of "same
> > lab"
> > possibilities.)
> >
> > thanks,
> > Brad Ellis
> > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > CCSI# 30482
> > CEO / President
> > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> >
> > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Christopher M. Heffner [mailto:cheffner@certified-labs.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:07 AM
> > To: Brad Ellis; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > Now that would really "suck" big time!
> >
> > Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
> >
> > www.certified-labs.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:22 PM
> > To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > I've heard that Cisco may change their re-take policy from 30 days to 6
> > months for failed tests...but just rumors so far.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Brad Ellis
> > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > CCSI# 30482
> > CEO / President
> > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
> > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> >
> > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Christopher M. Heffner
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:32 AM
> > To: Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> > Importance: Low
> >
> > Please DON'T give them any ideas.
> >
> > This is an expensive enough profession.
> >
> > Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
> >
> > www.certified-labs.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Dobyns [mailto:eric_dobyns@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:43 PM
> > To: 'Brian Dennis'; Christopher M. Heffner
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > Right now, I think they could charge twice that and still fill up their
> > seats.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Brian Dennis
> > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:22 PM
> > To: Christopher M. Heffner
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com;
> > comserv@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase
> >
> > Someone "announced" it here a few weeks ago ;-)
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
> > bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Christopher M. Heffner wrote:
> >
> > > Did anyone else notice the lab price increase made by Cisco for the
> > > CCIE Labs?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I noticed when checking lab dates that the price for the lab is now
> > > $1400.00 per attempt.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I donb t see any announcement on the CCIE website for the price
> > > increase.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this just being quietly changed without an announcement?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Christopher M. Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760
> > >
> > > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > HYPERLINK "http://www.certified-labs.com/"www.certified-labs.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > b(*
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
> > b(*
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/comserv.html
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > 10/3/2007
> > 10:08 AM
> > b(*
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date:
> > 10/3/2007
> > 10:08 AM
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 www.Net-WorkBooks.com
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