From: Colin McNamara (colin@2cups.com)
Date: Tue Oct 09 2007 - 18:57:54 ART
I am all for scheduling something akin to the assessor lab to test
performance prior to scheduling a date. Brute force should only be used
to test passwords, not get your CCIE #.
-- Colin McNamara (858)208-8105 CCIE #18233 "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little longer"On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 17:31 -0400, Scott Morris wrote: > IMHO that will actually scare most people. And I'm sure they'll come up > with some difficult criteria to meet before you even get to that point of > scheduling such that there isn't a backlog like that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:46 PM > To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > Scott, > > I understood what you were referring too; ie, someone's readiness to take > the lab exam. I think the written exam should do a better job of reflecting > this "readiness" level. > > I'm waiting to see that last "notch" that's going to be on top of the CCIE. > Can you imagine the wait time to schedule an exam for a review board run > format? Could be a 2-3 year waiting period. :) > > thanks, > Brad Ellis > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security) > CCSI# 30482 > CEO / President > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO) > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com > Toll Free: 877-654-2243 > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call > FAX: +1-702-446-8012 > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits! > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:44 PM > To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > I'm not talking about the written/qualification exam. I'm talking about > when someone goes into the lab! > > The written isn't supposed to be a measure of someone ability at the lab. > It never was. It's always been a differentiator between theory knowledge > and doing/application knowledge. > > I'd keep the written the way it is. I actually like the new written exam (a > little too much EIGRP still, but all in all good). It's just the 8-hour > timeframe in the lab that I would like to see changed, and that's the part > that is best suited for filtering anyway. > > With all the testking, et al companies out there selling the exam and all > the testing centers that you can go to, there's not any good way to control > people on that exam. So wait till they come in for the big one. That's the > "do or don't do" place. > > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE-M > #153, CISSP, et al. > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc. > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits! > > smorris@ipexpert.com > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 > Fax: +1.810.454.0130 > http://www.ipexpert.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:36 PM > To: smorris@ipexpert.com; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian > Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > Scott, > > I agree with you 100%. The main problem is the "qualification exam" ie, > the > "written exam" isn't a very good measure of an engineer's readiness to > attempt the lab exam. I think there needs to be a legitimate > qualification > exam that truly can attest to the level of the engineers competency. For > CCIE R&S, there used to be wireless on the written exam. > Now there is MPLS on the written. Both technologies not being covered by > the > lab exam. How is this an accurate measure of the engineer's abilities to > attempt the lab exam? It's not! There needs to be a more accurate > measurement in place. Once that happens, I think the wait time between > attempts will diminish. I also think the length of time you have to wait > between attempts should correlate to your last lab exam score. > Opening up some more testing centers wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just > my > $.02 > > thanks, > Brad Ellis > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security) > CCSI# 30482 > CEO / President > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO) > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com > Toll Free: 877-654-2243 > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call > FAX: +1-702-446-8012 > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits! > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:34 PM > To: Brad Ellis; Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > If they want to make serious progress in that idea, then they'll take a > different approach. > > 1. Start with a troubleshooting lab. 1-2 hours. If you can't figure > enough things out to fix, you obviously don't know what's going on and > shouldn't get to the "real" lab. > > 2. Shorten the real lab to 6-7 hours. People who don't make > troubleshooting won't even see the real thing and therefore can't > possibly > copy/memorize it 'cause they went home early. > > Taking the same lab again is only helpful if you've figured out the > answers > and can actually make things work! But splitting things up like this > will > give a higher test of people's deep understanding of technologies rather > than any sort of memorization for stuff going on. > > Just my thoughts. But raising the price or increasing the time between > labs > will irritate more good people than it will deter the ones you are > trying to > keep out. > > Some people know how things work, others do not. Filter based on that! > > Just my two cents. > > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, > JNCIE-M > #153, CISSP, et al. > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc. > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits! > > smorris@ipexpert.com > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 > Fax: +1.810.454.0130 > http://www.ipexpert.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of > Brad > Ellis > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:40 PM > To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > It might suck, but that would definitely solve a bunch of problems: > > 1) It would make it much harder for those "real test sites" to get > updates > 2) The backlog wouldnbt be so bad - there would be a lot more seats > available > 3) People would stop using the "take the test every 30 days until I > pass" > technique. I know a few folks who have taken the lab like that 8 or more > times until they pass. (This method gives a high percentage of "same > lab" > possibilities.) > > thanks, > Brad Ellis > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security) > CCSI# 30482 > CEO / President > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO) > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com > Toll Free: 877-654-2243 > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call > FAX: +1-702-446-8012 > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits! > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher M. Heffner [mailto:cheffner@certified-labs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:07 AM > To: Brad Ellis; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > Now that would really "suck" big time! > > Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760 > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc. > > www.certified-labs.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Ellis [mailto:brad@ccbootcamp.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:22 PM > To: Christopher M. Heffner; Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > I've heard that Cisco may change their re-take policy from 30 days to 6 > months for failed tests...but just rumors so far. > > thanks, > Brad Ellis > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security) > CCSI# 30482 > CEO / President > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO) > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com > Toll Free: 877-654-2243 > Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call > FAX: +1-702-446-8012 > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits! > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com > > Register to win a free iPhone! http://www.ccbootcamp.com/iphone.html > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher M. Heffner > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:32 AM > To: Eric Dobyns; Brian Dennis > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > Importance: Low > > Please DON'T give them any ideas. > > This is an expensive enough profession. > > Chris Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760 > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc. > > www.certified-labs.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Dobyns [mailto:eric_dobyns@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:43 PM > To: 'Brian Dennis'; Christopher M. Heffner > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: RE: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > Right now, I think they could charge twice that and still fill up their > seats. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of > Brian Dennis > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:22 PM > To: Christopher M. Heffner > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com; > comserv@groupstudy.com > Subject: Re: CCIE Lab Price Increase > > Someone "announced" it here a few weeks ago ;-) > > Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP) > bdennis@internetworkexpert.com > > Internetwork Expert, Inc. > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 > Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada) > > > > On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Christopher M. Heffner wrote: > > > Did anyone else notice the lab price increase made by Cisco for the > > CCIE Labs? > > > > > > > > I noticed when checking lab dates that the price for the lab is now > > $1400.00 per attempt. > > > > > > > > I donbt see any announcement on the CCIE website for the price > > increase. > > > > > > > > Is this just being quietly changed without an announcement? > > > > > > > > > > > > Christopher M. Heffner, CCIE 8211, CCSI 98760 > > > > Strategic Network Solutions, Inc. > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK "http://www.certified-labs.com/"www.certified-labs.com > > > > > > > > b(* > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: > > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Subscription information may be found at: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM > b(* > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: > 10/3/2007 10:08 AM > > _____________________________________________________________________ > Subscription information: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/comserv.html > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: > 10/3/2007 > 10:08 AM > b(* > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: > 10/3/2007 > 10:08 AM > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Subscription information may be found at: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
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