From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Oct 03 2007 - 08:54:04 ART
Well,
I've got some feedback but none from the people I was
hoping to get it from yet.
So far the biggest issue with anyone using Dynamips by
my estimation is the IOS License Agreement that you
click while downloading the IOS saying that you are in
possession of and have paid for the IOS you are
downloading and are going to use it under the terms of
the agreement...
Now considering many people find the IOS on the net
(kinds black market) and others just ask friends (I've
seen the requests on many forums), then those people
do not know what I am talking about - since they
obviously never agreed to anything.
It also seems to me and to others here, that Cisco has
turned a blind eye to individuals who are using the
latest Cisco IOS's to study and become certified in
the usage of the IOS.
Cisco even markets the idea of how dedicated CCIE's
are to get the coveted CCIE certification and those of
us who stil work diligently to get our own CCIE
certification or even other certifications at this
stage.
Now, I guess the issue would be if one actually tried
to market a PC with Dynamips and use it to perform as
a virtual Cisco Router (all perfomance issues and
other issues aside) - I'm not a Dynamips user, but
have read where the Dynamips is being used to interact
with Cisco Switches at the moment. So I would think
this is plausible to some extent if it is not
practical in production for any serious networks.
From speaking to my local Cisco SE's in the past, I
know Cisco frowns on gray market activity as well
(resell of Cisco gear), without which many of us hear
would not have our own labs or even likely have
achieved our own certification status. However, the
context of the frown is important - since if one buys
gray versus new - it does affect Cisco's bottom line
and since their product works for many years past the
support (a high quality product) they get what they
developed.
We are ultimately buying the Cisco IOS as much as or
even more than the actual hardware.
So there are legal, moral, and ethical imperatives in
this question I have sincerely asked.
Does anyone find it disturbing that the new generation
of Cisco Certified Wanna-be's are more concerned about
such matters than the exisiting Cisco Certified
Engineers?
These are the people who will be working for many of
the nation's and the world's top companies. I would
think more people would be concerned and would at
least someone with authority would take a stand for
good or ill, even if it is what none of want to hear.
The best we have now is hearsay from the author of
Dynamips from an anonymous Cisco employee.
So is it ok to use this product - just since Cisco is
a big company and we are just the ants in the machine
and oversells product or allows product to be oversold
but frowns on re-sale?
--- Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> At this point you think this question would have
> been
> answered completely and concisely.
>
> On a forum I am a member of, some of our members are
> concerned about the legality of using Dynamips and
> the
> IOS and violating the terms of usage of the IOS as
> provided by Cisco's copyright or fair usage etc.
> Whatever the exact legal language may be.
>
> A newly formed "watchdog forum" called certguard was
> asked about this matter and they consulted the
> author
> of Dynamips and he gave his response - available on
> the certguard forum.
>
> Now my question is primarily aimed at the vendors
> here
> since I suspect they have the answer already since
> they are offering lab workbooks (one of which I'm
> preparing to by at this very moment) and are
> generally
> condoning and supporting the usdage of Dynamips for.
>
> I do not mean to sound "out of my mind" by asking
> the
> question, since obviously this is the best lab prep
> tool since a real router came along... and got
> affordable on ebay (I do not think Cisco is happy
> about that market either - used/gray) but it is a
> part
> of life now too.
>
> So here are the questions:
>
> 1. Are users of Dynamips using the IOS illegally and
> against what the IOS was designed to do by using it
> with Dynamips?
>
> 2. Obviously people can do whatever they want in
> their
> own homes, but are forums and lists like groupstudy,
> or even vendors to be considered
> ethically-challenged
> for condoning and even recommending the usage of
> Dynamips in this fashion.
>
> 3. What is Cisco's official take on the matter?
>
> It may sound odd to some of us here, but I have a
> very
> devout group of upcoming networking engineers who
> care
> very much what Cisco thinks and they do not wish to
> be
> amoral, nor appear unethical in any way, and while
> some really want to use the product, do not want to
> publicly create a legal issue for themselves and the
> forums/lists they frequent in the future.
>
>
> So if anyone has the definitive answer and I suspect
> guys like NetMasterClass, InternetworkExpert and
> others who are catering to the use of Dynamips have
> already bridged this question and have a firm and
> quotable answer from Cisco that is going to be very
> satisfactoty.
>
> Sorry if this has already come up and I missed it,
> but
> I read GS alot and did not think it passed my eyes
> before.
>
> I must admit that since I own several real racks of
> gear and always have at least one fully reachable
> from
> anywhere on the Internet, this has never been a
> question for me, but I am also concerned since I,
> too,
> am seeing a definate need and place for this
> outstanding little tool called Dynamips. And I love
> the fact that guys like InternetworkExpert support a
> workbook dedicated to it as well.
>
>
> - I know what is this guy thinking at 2:30am in the
> morning... I've got an appointment tomorrow that
> scares the hell out of me and I'm having trouble
> sleeping - no it is not a lab.
>
> :)
>
>
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