From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Sep 22 2007 - 04:36:38 ART
I totally agree mate.
On 9/21/07, Brian Dennis <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>
> This is the reason we have taught the IE Advanced Technologies Class
> (IEATC-RS) since we first started Internetwork Expert 3 years ago.
> But we still see people who think they don't need to learn the
> technologies and skip this class or the CoD version. Not learning
> the technologies covered in the R&S lab at a CCIE level is one of the
> biggest reasons people fail the lab.
>
> Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
> bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
>
>
> On Sep 21, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Gary Duncanson wrote:
>
> > Narbik,
> >
> > I agree with your approach, which is why, over the years, I have
> > read a ton of
> > books and looked at technologies in isolation and great detail. An
> > entire
> > evening looking at SRTT for example. How the long winter hours flew
> > by.
> >
> > In 2002 I worked the labs in Hutnik and Saterlees book. This was
> > one of my
> > preparations of technologies in isolation. Get that sort of time
> > under your
> > belt and then do your mock labs. I should add that IPExpert does
> > also include
> > some technology specific labs as well as multiprotocol labs.
> >
> > IMHO the amount/level of theoretical discussion on protocols on GS
> > has reduced
> > a little over the years. Back in the day I had a rucksack full of
> > books and
> > horrid white papers (like the WAN Technologies guide off cisco.com)
> > which you
> > beat to death on the commutes to work. Then you scoured archives on
> > GS for
> > better understanding and followed threads about mechanisms. If you
> > had a bit
> > of equipment at home, you labbed what you could and asked for help/
> > insights on
> > the list. Time consuming but you learned a lot by trial and error.
> > In less
> > time I reckon you can blitz through a professional labbook but
> > without the
> > grounding in rudiments how much do you really learn and understand?
> >
> > There is less reading and a lot of memorization going on and a lack of
> > rudimentary understanding in some candidates. This isn't a new
> > thing, but
> > perhaps the situation is worse now there are so many mock labs to
> > choose
> > from.
> >
> > Perhaps some people dive into mocks before labbing out the
> > technologies from
> > (for example) Caslow and Doyle and the technology guides on
> > cisco.com like we
> > used to?
> >
> > Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Narbik Kocharians
> > To: Gary Duncanson
> > Cc: Guyler, Rik ; cristian.ionescu@omnilogic.ro ;
> > ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: ..going to brussels....failed
> >
> >
> > Sometimes this is the end result of doing too many Mock labs,
> > have you ever
> > asked yourself what is it that you learned when you completed a
> > given mock
> > lab? I bet what you learned was mostly what you should do if and
> > when you are
> > in that specific situation.
> >
> > I honestly believe that before doing bunch of mock labs, you need
> > to do
> > unbelievable number of protocol specific labs, that way you will
> > see and learn
> > the behavior of each protocol individually and not in a set
> > topology or
> > scenario. Once you have done bunch of protocol specific labs, then
> > you should
> > spend time on the mock labs. This way you will enjoy and learn few
> > tricks in
> > the mock lab and appreciate what the author was trying to do. You
> > can almost
> > guess the next step/s.
> >
> > You need to learn and NOT memorize, you need to know and you need
> > to know
> > most if not all of the possible ways that a given task can be
> > accomplished,
> > you need to know the theory behind each protocol, the little
> > differences
> > between them and how each item in the theory translates into
> > configuration
> > commands, its only then that you can make an educated guess as to
> > what to do
> > or which way you should configure a given task.
> >
> > After doing what I just recommended, don't you think you should
> > be able to
> > make better decision as to which solution to use and why a given
> > solution
> > should be cross eliminated?
> >
> > Mock labs are great only after you have done lots of protocol
> > specific labs.
> >
> > Let's say today you need to practice BGP, with mock lab work book/
> > s, you
> > need to go through 3 4 hours of configuration before you get to
> > the BGP
> > section, and once you get there, you probably do three to five
> > tasks and you
> > are done. This is why I always say that you need to do protocol
> > specific labs,
> > because with a work book that takes apart each protocol
> > individually, if you
> > wanted to do BGP, you would go to the BGP section and do 200 pages
> > of BGP labs
> > and BGP labs ONLY.
> >
> > Another issue with doing the mock labs and mock labs only is that
> > your focus
> > is divided into the protocols and the topology, have a look at the
> > topologies
> > in anyone's mock labs (Including mine), it's pretty complicated,
> > when that
> > happens, your focus automatically gets divided into the protocol
> > and the
> > topology, whereas, with protocol specific work books that are
> > written in a
> > very simple topology, your focus is on the protocol and protocol ONLY.
> >
> >
> >
> > I do not want to start a war here and I honestly respect other
> > instructor's
> > philosophy and knowledge so please don't misunderstand me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Once again every vendor has their own opinion and philosophy and
> > this is
> > mine.
> >
> > DO YOUR PROTOCOL SPECIFIC WORK BOOKS BEFORE DOING THE MOCK LAB
> > WORK BOOKS
> > and you will see the difference.
> >
> >
> > Its simply the BEST way to study.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/21/07, Gary Duncanson <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > I'm using Scott's lab workbook v9.0 from IPExpert. It's an
> > excellent
> > product.
> >
> > Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Guyler, Rik" <rguyler@shp-dayton.org>
> > To: "'Cristian Ionescu'" < cristian.ionescu@omnilogic.ro>;
> > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:32 PM
> > Subject: RE: ..going to brussels....failed
> >
> >
> >> Christian, your score report should give you some idea as to what
> >> areas
> > to
> >> study a little more. As it's been said so many times, it sounds like
> > you
> >> were right there on the edge of passing but maybe some of the
> > requirements
> >> or interpretations caught you up. If you received a 70 on the lab
> >> then
> >> you
> >> did a lot of things right so technically you may be where you need to
> > be.
> >>
> >> I know IE and IPExpert both have strategy lectures. Since you
> >> mention
> > IE,
> >> why not see what Scott might have to help you over the hump?
> >> Sometimes
> > it
> >> just takes a little different perspective...see things from a
> >> different
> >> angle.
> >>
> >> Rik
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> >> Behalf Of
> >> Cristian Ionescu
> >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 5:18 AM
> >> To: Cisco certification
> >> Subject: ..going to brussels....failed
> >>
> >> Hy to all
> >>
> >> As i promise i came with some info.
> >>
> >> I was close in my opinion (70) and until now i do not know where i
> >> was
> >> wrong. Maybe i did not do it in "cisco way".
> >> For example in IPV6 i've used link-local address put it manually by
> >> me....(it is more easy in routing protocols)...
> >>
> >> I finish one hour earlier and have time to recheck twice and reload
> >> everything. After the reload BGP was perfect so....everything was ok.
> >> I am very upset because it was an easy scenario......compare to
> >> IEWB it
> >> was
> >> nothing.....
> >> i now that i can't say something about it.....officially....but
> >> believe
> > my
> >> it was a difficulty of 3 !!!!!
> >>
> >> .....dame it.....i should get it....
> >>
> >>
> >> Now everybody tries to encourage me to go further but i am a little
> >> confuse...i want to get a new date until December but it is
> >> difficult. I
> >> do
> >> not know if i will get such an easy scenario.
> >> I do not know what to re-read, re-do....etc...
> >>
> >> I will keep watch this forum....it is a good source of info for me..
> >>
> >> Cristian
> >>
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> >> Thank you,
> >> OMNILOGIC Team
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Narbik Kocharians
> > CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > CCSI# 30832
> > www.Net-WorkBooks.com
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
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-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 www.Net-WorkBooks.com
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