RE: Dynagen folks...

From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Sat Sep 01 2007 - 20:08:08 ART

I don't think it's stuff that will matter that much, but can you emulate
console port connections for a full stack of routers?

Or, by the time you get your PC outfitted with 16 ethernet ports to plug
into your switches, haven't you just spent as much in equipment and your own
valuable time as getting real equipment?

I don't think it's anything truly important, but it just depends on where
you like to spend your time. Me, I don't like unix that much, so the idea
of configuring a box for Dynamips isn't ranking real high on my list. But
that's just me. Doesn't mean I think it's useless at all!

I'm all for the couple instances on a laptop to test minor things while
flying cross-country on the airplane... I did that with my Juniper studies,
so I certainly have no qualms about it with Cisco gear.

 
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE
#153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
 
A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
 
smorris@ipexpert.com
 
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
http://www.ipexpert.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Vermillion
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 1:06 PM
To: Cisco certification
Subject: RE: Dynagen folks...

Scott,

I will ask of you the same thing I asked of Joe:

Please be specific on what you can do w/ a stack of e-bay routers that you
cannot do in Dynamips *that matters in the lab.* I'm honestly interested in
hearing from people on that issue.

I agree that there is a time investment to get this set up. And a $$
investment in the real switches. But I have now have 24/7 access to a full
"rack" and I don't have to schedule anything with anybody. For those of us
who remove ourselves from the working world while we prepare for the lab,
this can actually be a cost savings (every day that goes by is a day I can't
bill any clients for my time, so the more intense I am about this, the
sooner I get back in the money).

Regards,

Scott

  -------- Original Message --------
  Subject: RE: Dynagen folks...
  From: "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com>
  Date: Sat, September 01, 2007 5:48 am
  To: "'darth router'" <darklordrouter@gmail.com>, "'Scott
  Vermillion'"
  <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
  Cc: "'Cisco certification'" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>

  And the self-handling have no risk of STD. ;)

  Anyway, there are some subtle things that cannot be done on a
  virtualized
  devices. There is a LOT of time to be spent in order to get a full
  system
  setup and integrated with real switches in order to get the full
  flavor of
  actual equipment/lab.

  However, it's a bit cheaper to go virtual! Either way, virtual stuff
  isn't
  a substitute for real equipment, but I don't think it would add up to
  someone failing because they just did Dynamips. Unless of course,
  they did
  Dynampis exclusively on routers and virtualized ethernet connections
  without
  touching ANY switches. Then there would be a significant number of
  points
  lost and likely unable to recover enough to pass.

  Worst case, do most of the L3 'n' up studies on Dynamips.... Go rent
  some
  rack time and concentrate on the L2/ethernet side of things. Problem
  solved, money saved.

  Ya know there's a holiday for your parenthetical analogy there....
  Palm
  Sunday. ;)

  Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
  JNCIE
  #153, CISSP, et al.
  CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
  VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
  IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor

  A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!

  smorris@ipexpert.com

  Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
  Fax: +1.810.454.0130
  http://www.ipexpert.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
  Of
  darth router
  Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:04 AM
  To: Scott Vermillion
  Cc: Cisco certification
  Subject: Re: Dynagen folks...

  You guys are going it all wrong. You have to fight analogy with
  analogy.

  (Even if you arent a virgin, sometimes you would just rather whack
  off) =
  DYNAMIPS!

  I had a full CCIE lab, sold it, recouped money, and dynamips is much
  much
  more efficient as far as building topologies and changing things.

  bwahahahhaha!

  On 9/1/07, Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com> wrote:
>
> I'll take this a step further Joe (and maybe you have a good
  answer, I
> don't presuppose with any degree of certainty, but I can suspect):
>
> Other than some of the text that flies by during the boot sequence,
  if
> the Brians secretly redirected you to a rack where the routers were
> all Dynamips instances (excepting the ISR, which Dynagen does not
> emulate as of this time), how would you know they had done that,
> exactly? Would it be the "feel" perhaps? The "force" maybe?
>
> I'll tell you one way you might notice: I can boot a router
  instance
> on this Mac Mini in a matter of a few seconds! I get "press return
  to
> get started" in a very small fraction of the time I do when booting
  a
> hardware router. Other than that and the aforementioned text thing,
> I'm not sure how you'd ever even know sitting from afar?
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: Dynagen folks...
> From: Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
> Date: Fri, August 31, 2007 10:38 pm
> To: Cisco certification <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>
> I am a true Dynamips/Dynagen believer and have built my lab prep
> "rack"
> around it/them. Please explain, Joe, how I will fail the CCIE lab
> because of it ("nothing else can prepare you for the real thing")?
> What
> is it about that "feel" that makes the difference (can you go
  "feel"
> the
> routers during the practical? Can you "feel" the routers in that
> remote
> rack?)?
>
> This has the potential to become the next "CCIE vs. college degree"
> topic, me thinks. It's probably not a very good use of bandwidth,
> come
> to think of it LOL, but I can't resist asking you to elaborate on
> these
> seemingly unfounded generalizations. I would prefer that you answer
> with
> "I have hardware routers and I also run Dynamips/Dynagen on a
  machine
> of
> sufficient horsepower, and here are the things I can do on the
  former
> that I can't do on the latter *that matter in the lab* (i.e. don't
> tell
> me about toggling the power switch...yawn...you can't do that in
  the
> lab
> anyway by all accounts I've ever heard).
>
> I'll start, going the opposite direction:
>
> I run Dynamips/Dynagen on a machine of sufficient horsepower, and I
> can
> directly capture traffic from a router interface into a .cap file
  and
> scrutinize every one and zero using open source WireShark. When I
> want
> to do that w/ physical routers, I have to use Ethernet (no serial)
> and
> set up a span port on a switch or put a hub in between the two
> routers,
> with a machine running WireShark hanging off of the hub (and I'm
> obviously in HDX at this point, which means the test environment is
> different than the non-test environment). Otherwise, I'm limited to
> only
> debug. I, of course, acknowledge that you're limited to only debug
  in
> the lab, but in your preparation for the lab, it's powerful to have
> such
> a tool at your disposal so that you can truly understand what's
  going
> on
> under the hood when you see certain debug output.
>
> BTW, I'm told Juniper has this capability to write .cap files on
> physical
> routers, but I cannot personall y verify. I have never heard of
  such
> a
> capability on Cisco routers, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
>
> There are more, of course, but I've already stated many of them in
> other
> recent threads and posts...
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Dynagen folks...
> From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> Date: Fri, August 31, 2007 9:53 pm
> To: "'Cisco certification'" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>
> Nothing feels as good as the real thing. And else nothing can
  prepare
> you
> for the real thing.
>
> (Remember if you only have had sex with a condom, your still a
> virgin, LOL)
>
> Check out the Brian's racks!
>
> http://www.affirmedsystems.com/photos/IERACKS.JPG
>
> Rack12R6#sh vers
>
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>
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>
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