RE: Virtual CCIE's?

From: Scott Vermillion (scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com)
Date: Tue Aug 21 2007 - 01:09:04 ART


Hi,

The brief history of the project is found here:

http://www.ipflow.utc.fr/index.php/Cisco_7200_Simulator

So from some point in 2005 when we had a "7200 Simulator," we arrive at
where we now stand. What Christophe has been able to accomplish in such
short order is nothing short of amazing. When I contemplate this, I
think Ethereal/Wireshark. Here we have another example of some really
smart, talented, and driven people who fundamentally changed how things
are done. Used to be, if I wanted to see all of those ones and zeros
flying around, I got out my checkbook and lightened my bank account
considerably. No longer the case at all. And I'll take Wireshark over
any commercial product on the market and not give it a second thought.

As to your second question regarding development of IOS, I have no idea.
The value I see here is for me, the end-user and for me, the practitioner
of networkology. I can prototype a concept. I can run 'capture' and
dissect a .cap file to quickly dispel myth and innuendo. I can learn on
a level I could never have learned before...and do so much more quickly.
When I did my CCNA/DA/NP/DP stuff some time back, I had a HW lab. I
specifically recall dreading a complete reconfiguration due to the time
lost, so I would try to stay with a single one-size-fits-all topology.
It worked well enough, but I'm thrilled at the power to simply 'exit' and
then double-click on a new .net file. Granted, there may be some
re-cable work to be done here and there once I integrate my HW switches
w/ my emulated routers, but not much. Certainly nothing that's going to
measurably distract me from my studies.

My thoughts, anyway...

Regards,

Scott

  -------- Original Message --------
  Subject: Re: Virtual CCIE's?
  From: ISolveSystems <support@isolvesystems.com>
  Date: Mon, August 20, 2007 8:53 pm
  To: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
  Cc: "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>

  You said that Dynamips is in its infancy. I am curious to know how
  old is Dynamips? How do you see the continuing development of
  Dynamips to support future IOS development?

  Regards,

  On 8/20/07, Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com> wrote:

      Gregory,

      Were a person to acquire the CCIE cert w/ nothing more than
    time on
      Dynamips, that person may indeed face a few embarrassing
    moments
      early on. So it should be outlawed and shunned by the
    CCIE-seeking
      community at large? I'd wager that 90% or better using
    Dynamips for
      CCIE study have sufficient experience w/ real HW to know which
    side
      the power switch is on.

      Do you think you'll normally have physical access to all of the
      routers on which you are expected to perform your work? If you
      require that to do your job, are you effective?

      Recall that this is real IOS -- not some training
    simulator. So the
      chassis, the power supply, the interface cards, etc. are
    lacking in
      your CCIE lab, where you are intensely focused on subtle
    protocol
      interplay. So? Can you even touch the HW during the CCIE
    practical
      exam?

      I have posted this as recently as a few hours ago on the
    professional
      board:

      "I have now been dealing with Dynamips since (roughly) Dec of
    last
      year. I generally trust i t (yes, bugs now and then and even
    the
      occasional crash, but can IOS itself claim otherwise?) and
    actually
      prefer it over real hardware for a couple of reasons:

      1. Recabling a HW lab takes longer than launching a new .net
    file. I
      keep every .net file I've ever created, along with all of the
    router
      NVRAM files, etc. Modifying one lab for another purpose gets
    easier
      and easier as your collection grows. Take good notes on why you
      created a given environment and your results. This becomes a
    highly
      valuable reference resource when you've grown a little fuzzy on
    some
      details of a prior battle.

      2. The capture function of Dynagen is killer. Definitely beats
    debug
      output when you're really trying to understand what's going on
    under
      the hood. If you're proficient w/ Wireshark or any other PA
    that can
      open a .cap file, this is a "killer app" for sur e."

      Dynamips is nothing short of revolutionary for understanding,
      troubleshooting, prototyping, and generally poking and prodding
      network-related protocols. It has some limitations, yet in its
      infancy. Know those and live with them. And then leverage a
    tool
      that can only be bested by some seriously deep pockets...

      Regards,

      Scott

        -------- Original MessageGr --------
        Subject: Virtual CCIE's?
        From: "Gregory Gombas" <ggombas@gmail.com>
        Date: Mon, August 20, 2007 6:19 pm
        To: "Cisco certification" < ccielab@groupstudy.com>

        Guys,

        I was checking out Dynamips and its pretty cool and all, but
    it
        does
        worry me a little bit....

        How will employers view the CCIE certification after they've
    been
        burned by hiring a CCIE who has never touched a real router
    in
        their
        life?

        Do you like the idea of a pilot flying your plane whose only
        training
        was with a virtual flight simulator?

        I remember the days when the MCSE was a hot cert until an
    army of
        paper CCIE's hit the job market.

        Maybe they won't call it a paper CCIE, maybe they'll coin a
    new
        term
        like virtual CCIE.

        Just food for thought...

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