From: Daniel_Steyn@Dell.com
Date: Fri Apr 20 2007 - 01:19:34 ART
I second this. Narbik is a VERY good instructor. His is not only a
great teacher, but he knows the technologies inside and out...and I mean
he KNOWS them like no one else that I've seen.
I can't say that he has the "best" bootcamp as I haven't seen all of
them...but I can say is that you would absolutely come out ahead and
will learn a lot - even if you know a lot going in. You can also learn
in a much faster and condensed manner by having someone explain
something to you as opposed to trying to learn it on your own.
In my personal opinion, I'd recommend reading as much of the
"recommended reading" books from Cisco's website as you can, and then
take a bootcamp as a final step in your preparation - right before you
plan to take the exam. The bootcamp will prove to be an EXCELLENT
review of all topics - especially since a thorough review is difficult
due to the magnitude of the topics.
I'd also recommend the Ciscopress' CCIE Exam Certification Guide. This
book is structured to match the written blueprint exactly and is a
one-stop complete text for the exam.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Eric Dobyns
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:03 PM
To: 'Darby Weaver'; 'Victor Cappuccio'; 'Lala Lander'; 'Scott Thornton'
Cc: engshad.shady@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Recommanded books
Narbik's bootcamp book is the best I've seen. You can order a thousand
books (some you want to keep as references anyway) and read them, but in
the end you need the practical experience you get in the bootcamp too.
A lot of that stuff you just don't come across on-the-job.
If you're lucky enough to get Narbik as your bootcamp instructor AND get
his book, so much the better.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Darby Weaver
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:32 PM
To: Victor Cappuccio; Lala Lander; Scott Thornton
Cc: engshad.shady@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Recommanded books
Hey before we start questioning one of our honorable CCIE intstrutors
whose job it is to help us by using a tool called a boot camp (really a
smorgasboard of technologies - and quite varied from vendor to vendor
anyway), let me share something I wrote for another forum dedicated to
Cisco Studies and the CCIE in particular - some found it helpful.
======================================
I'll assume you have passed the CCIE Written Exam, and if so have a
certain familiarity with most topics that are on the lab.
1. Go to cisco.com/go/ccie and take a look around there - you will find
the CCIE Lab Outline among other things.
2. If you decide to go with a vendor, there are several and since you
got this far, you probably are quite proficient with using search tools
- this forum has answered this question at least hundred if not a
thousand times already and the answers have not really changed that much
over the years and no matter how many times asked.
I will tell you that currently, I myself have had good experience with
all vendor workbooks (yep - I have used them all if nothing else than
for additional reading material), and I am going to instead point you to
another direction - first.
Not that you cannot just totally blow me off and think I am a bit insane
for suggesting you actually read the books, do some real exrecises, and
gain additional insight before asking the vendors to simply fill your
head with concepts, terms, tips, tricks and valuable advice that you are
probably not yet ready to comprehend yet. And no offense is intended -
none at all.
Since you are new, go to lulu.com and search for CCIE, you will find Tom
Larus, he offers a free guide to the CCIE Lab. It is dated and is not
quite up to date, but you owe it to yourself to have a look and it is
free so it won't hurt to look.
Here is the specific link:
http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?_shopSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.
com%
2Fbrowse%2Fsearch.php&_helpSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fhelp%2Fsea
rch.
php&_forumSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fforums%2Fsearch.php%3Fmode%
3Dre
sults&search_forum=-1&search_cat=2&show_results=topics&return_chars=200&
sear
ch_keywords=&keys=&fSearch=ccie&fSearchFamily=0
Watch the wrap.
Not to insult but if you search lulu.com for CCNA, you might also find
CCNA - Learning by Doing.
http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?_shopSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.
com%
2Fbrowse%2Fsearch.php&_helpSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fhelp%2Fsea
rch.
php&_forumSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fforums%2Fsearch.php%3Fmode%
3Dre
sults&search_forum=-1&search_cat=2&show_results=topics&return_chars=200&
sear
ch_keywords=&keys=&fSearch=ccna&fSearchFamily=0
So either way you can download free or purchase a printed copy for easy
reading.
I would advise starting here first. Get a feel for things.
Now that you have read these and hopefully done these exercises and got
into the groove of expectations.
Go to ebay.
Perform a search on CCIE. Look for a guy named Matt Weber.
He offers a quick CCIE RS lab Outline - perhaps 150-200 pages or so that
he will send you a print copy of.
Nice package with a lot of experience and practical advice for a little
pocket change.
Again, I'm going to hep you out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CCIE-Lab-Study-Guide_W0QQitemZ300081690012QQihZ020QQ
cate
goryZ51202QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Now I have found the following items to be invaluable and each of the
vendors in question will reference you to them as well - so I'll save
you the trouble and tell you now.
1. InternetworkExpert.com - Tons of good and free links and tips on
their site - NTP, FRTS, and Subnet Mask Calculations come to my mind -
but there is a lot more there for free and available just for stopping
by. - By the way the three I just mentioned to you are probably worth at
least 8-9 points on your lab whenever you go.
2. Netmasterclass.com - they have a wealth of papers on their site and
there are probably 20-30 pdfs freely available for your usage and
perusal - take a look and enjoy the free scenery. - Things like
Multicast, Native VLAN, Redistribution, BGP topics, RIP, etc.
stand out like a sore thumb and will likely serve you well in the lab -
10-12 points or so.
3. IPExpert.com - Join get an account - take adavantage of the CCNP and
CCIE eScnearios - here you will find a wealth of knoweldge freely
available. I'd say you can round up at least another 10-12 points not
covered anywhere up above or below. So get them while they last.
4. CCBootcamp.com - look around they might refer you to their Public FTP
Site and if you are keen enough to find it, you will also have found a
wealth of items that you may want to peruse including some current and
relevant CCIE Advice and lots of other freebies as well - Frame Relay
Setup is there as I recall - just a lot of good overall and general
info. I'm sure a careful eye can find some items that will save some
pitfalls later.
5. http://www.cisco.com/univercd/home/home.htm - Make it your homepage.
Bookmark it. Learn it, Live it, Eat it, Sleep it, and I even want you to
be like Alice in Wonderland and dream it.
Every vendor will point you here - recall what I told you about
searching, I want you to use this every time you have a problem, a
doubt, a concern, etc. If you see a table, find it in here. Regular
Expressions - they are here and I want you to tell me where.
Got it. No forgivemess if you pass this one up.
I'll be you at least 21 point in your lab are going to be in here
somewhere and you get this resource while you are taking the lab.
It is your best friend - get the meet and greet over with.
=======================
Now of you need gear or lab time - Ebay Rulez!
So take a moment and look before you "Buy-it-Now" and you'll do quite
well.
I do advise you consider rack rental vs. rack ownership since if you do
the math. Rack Rental may be more affordable.
======================
Finally, about 3 months later...
You are now ready to but some books, allow me to help you in your
selection - recall you are not yet ready for full-scale labs yet.
Cisco Press - TCP/IP Volume I - Doyle - Why not save frustration and
start right here. There are enough labs and every vendor will refernce
Doyle - but if you are smart you have already been here and done that.
Cisco Press - Cisco Press - Frame Relay Switching - Take a moment - buy
the book do the practicals and now you own a nice layer 2 topic and FRTS
as well.
Cisco Press - LAN Switching - Kennedy Clark - Again, every single vendor
will point you here - save yourself some time and read it till you know
it - 1x, 2x, 3x etc.
At this point, you are a very well-armed consumer and you are pretty
savvy about IGP's, Frame Relay, and Switching topics - even FRTS and
some queueing techniques.
Now, I ask you to think about where you are and what you need next?
So why not consider Dr. Parkhurst, after all he is or was a CCIE Lab
Proctor and did add a couple of books to the selection list.
Cisco Press - OSPF
Cisco Press - BGP
Cisco Press - Troubleshooting Routing Protocols comes next. The guys at
TAC did some nice work here and you can benefit for your lab as well.
Cisco Press - TCP/IP Volume II - You loved Vol I (2nd edition), and now
you will love Volume II - maybe even more. Again all your favorite
vendors will suggest this one as well.
So by now you have most of your topics well under control - but wait
there is more:
1. QoS - Cisco Press has a nice offering by Wendell Odom. Take a look -
lots of goodies.
2. IPv6 - Cisco Press has two offerings here that are very worthwhile.
3. Multicast - Allow me to point you again to Dr.
Parkhurst - this time the book is out of print and the publisher is
McGrawhill - not the latest information in some regards, but an
excellent primer. May I suggest half.com - might cost you $5.00-$10.00
with shipping.
4. BGP - Cisco Press - Halabi and there is a BGP Design offering as
well. If you are going to buy one, why not buy them both.
5. Cisco Press - Practical Studies v1/v2 by Karl Solie
- out of date but hey - it is Cisco Press and it is a good structure to
90% of the topics and might be cheap on half.com.
6. CCIE R&S Labs - Cisco Press - 6 more labs - out of date... But who is
counting. More insight and "wording" from the people who love to torture
you most
- you guessed it and Gorito is the author of this offering.
====================================
Now my friend you are 6-12 months into your studies, you have read a
small library and you might be ready to look at our favorite vendors.
You are going to read and practice the technologies at least a little
bit before you make a major investment into bootcamps and lab workbooks,
aren't you?
I think you will also have earned a certain respect from the vendors
when you either meet them in person or confer with them through this
list.
I've given a lot of advice for free - like groupstudy.com and other such
forums.
Take it for what it is worth. I don't think anyone is going to bash me
too badly for this one.
Others will have their preferences, but since my preferences for vendors
is getting to the point where I know them all by name, CCIE number, and
geographic boundary - I might be biased. I also am a customer of all of
them.
But you asked not which vendor but how to startup.
I gave you an answer.
Others may differ, but I did give you a fair answer that is probably
worth something if used wisely.
And I know I left off a few things here and there in terms of
references.
But you are apparently starting fresh - explore everyone before you
commit your cash and loyalty to one or another.
Also, use Google.com
Stick CCIE in their - you might be surprised at what you might find.
So good luck and once you are a bit more primed, educated and ready, you
will be able to make an informed decision - you will have visited each
of the four major vendors on this list and you will probably be swayed
one way or another based on their offerings and what you have red on
their respective sites.
If you are like me, you might buy them all and become the
UBER-CCIE-BUYER...
Or you may decide you to only pick one or two.
Enjoy the journey...
=================================
Now this is basically how I started my studies and yes my first CCIE
book was not even Bridges, Routers, and Switches (it was my third
actually as I recall and probably my favorite); but was actually...
Giles...
Even though I had to plough through it and I still think of it as a good
primer for network analysis, but it does cover a lot of bits and bytes
and things I have had to learn - aka raw facts about packets along the
way.
So 10 years old or not it has its place.
=======================================
But I do take hits for taking such a long journey and I had found that I
still had gaps and dare say I still have gaps in some technologies, but
overall, I liked the "long road" and it has so far proven very fruitful
for me as it can for others.
And I have used the 5-day/40-hour (always 9-day/100+ hour sessions for
me) week training classes aka "boot camps" to further close my gaps of
knowledge.
Hey use whatever resources you may need as a vehicle to get wherever it
is you are going.
If you are making a trip across country, you can take a jet or you can
hike, and either way it will be an experience, but which way will you
have a more meaningful experience?
I like to think of the boot camps as something like hiking, with an
occassional hitch hike along the journey.
And there are more books which I have since used, raved about, and no
longer use any more, but still they helped me to corner a topic.
I do relate a boot camp to about the equivalent of reading a book.
Here's why: I was once told that if a person could learn only 1 thing
from each experience he/she had with meeting a person, watching a movie,
reading a book, an article, a play, a poem, etc. then that person has
gained something valuable.
I personally strive for this.
So I've given some books and resources, and if you ever see my own
bookshelves you'll realize there are tons more that are available - read
this list and others; you'll never be bored.
Good luck and I hope this helps a bit.
Darby
--- Victor Cappuccio <victor@ccbootcamp.com> wrote:
> Shahid, many as you think the same in the same way.
> But other many just care
> to be the best professional in networking (quick ccies you can call
> it). I personally know some CCIE that they have not touch a router in
> almost 10 years, and some that they just got out from the lab
> (6 month) and they have
> still the "Knowledge"
>
> is just a way to see this as an almost empty glass of watter
>
> Just my 2 cents
> Victor.-
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com on behalf of Lala Lander
> Sent: Thu 4/19/2007 13:10
> To: Scott Thornton
> Cc: engshad.shady@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE Recommanded books
>
> nice....so narbik you are suggesting a good bootcamp can replace all
> the recommended reading. I always thought the purpose of CCIE was to
> learn technoplogies, develop good reading habits and not just pass the
> test.
> Ultimately these CCIEs should able to write RFCs, come up with new
> ideas or contribute in some fashion. If they dont read books, dont
> understand protocols deeply, dont understand thought process of
> protocol designers,how are they suppose to do anything new in the
> field?
>
> I wonder how you guys passed your CCIEs? whose bootcamp you attended
> Narbik?
> And whose bootcamp your instructor attended? I'll like to trace the
> person at the end who indeed read the books and asked them to guide
> this list.
>
> Shahid
> CCIE #12665 (R&S) and reading books for CCIE Security and SP for last
> 6 months now!
>
>
> On 4/19/07, Scott Thornton <scthornton@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I read the book from ccbootcamp, did a couple
> practice tests and then
> > took the test...got a 94.
> >
> > depending on your background, I wouldn't waste
> your time on anything
> > else...
> >
> > if you can or have passed the ccnp and have
> experience with mulicast,
> > wireless. qos...and actually understand those
> technologies you should
> > be able to pass...
> >
> > On 4/19/07, engshad.shady@gmail.com
> <engshad.shady@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > i need to know whate is the recommanded book to
> read for ccie written
> > from
> > > the new released books that cover the topics of
> exames (the good books
> > in
> > > your view )
> > >
> > >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue May 01 2007 - 08:28:36 ART