From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Mon Apr 16 2007 - 14:16:23 ART
"40 years of CCIE training per year"??? :) Sounds like you've been
working too hard!
It may seem like years, but only days go by! (grin)
Every year or so, we always have similar discussions... We're still here
though!
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Darby Weaver
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:54 AM
To: Lab Dude
Cc: Dan C; Usman Ali; Anthony Bonilla; CCIEwnaB; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Why not to use the "real ccie lab" folks
Why unfair to those who passed before and why are they wimps?
They had to take the lab of their day and it was a challenge.
The community as a whole has grown by leaps and bounds since the first CCIE
till today.
I can assure you the CCIE's who took the lab 10 years ago had their work cut
out for them then as we do now.
We have more resources to study, but the lab has gotten more interesting.
They had no such resources at the time and if you look at lab materials from
the past decade you might think some things simplistic until you try to deal
with things like AppleTalk, Novell, and Vines among other protocols and the
joys they brought to the table.
Nope each generation has challenges.
If the lab goes to 2 day again, 3 day or even 5 day there will be those of
us who will pay the price to achieve the certfication no matter what.
So why even argue the point.
Let the 5-day labs begin now.
Cisco was considerate of the candidates then and will be in the future, and
you wonder why the proctors no longer take the time to discuss scores with
candidates... It was getting spooky to them and they were getting fearful
of the emotionally distraught folks.
The lab is tense and always will be 1 day or more.
But hey and interview and an oral review are not unheard of, nor is getting
a peer or a manager or the like to certify that a candidate has x years of
experience.
Would it really hurt to do these things? And what about continuing
education credit of some sort.
Networkers used to be a nice requirement and it went away. Personally it or
an alternative such as attending at least 40 years of CCIE level training
per year would be a minimum in my book.
Guess there would be a lot CCIE's hating me and more loving me if I ever got
the job.
Value would be secured for sure and no one would fear being called a paper
tiger or even a lab rat.
If you got it you earned it, and if you got it, you continue to earn it.
Not much to ask from the most respected cert in the industry.
Why not set the standard?
It's called survival, when only the strong can survive.
--- Lab Dude <ccielabdude@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whats next? Rename of CCIE to PhD certification?
> Pre-requisite being
> enrolling at a Cisco Academy for 5 years before pursuing the
> certification?
> If I recall correctly, there are no lab slots available in the near
> future due to 'high-demand'. Do you really think Cisco has enough
> resources to allocate for a certification?
>
> Give me a break. This is just a certification that needs renewing
> every 2 years. This is NOT a PhD dissertation. At least once you get
> the PhD degree you hold it for life, not with a 2 years renewal
> condition.
>
> If Cisco was to ever adhere to the rumor, it would be extremely unfair
> to those planning to pursue in the future as many wimps have already
> passed before ;-)
>
> On 4/16/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > You know there is a rumor of a new program manager
> to
> > replace Maurilio and that program manager wants I multiday program
> > (I think 5-day) and that it would involve just such an interview
> > process on day one before a candidate would ever even be allowed to
> see a
> > rack of gear. Then the candidate would have to complete each of
> > several tracks to include all of
> the
> > older technologies and the newer ones as well.
> >
> > Just a rumor but my own ears did hear it.
> >
> > I guess it would be a true Enterprise-Class CCIE
> and
> > wimps need not apply.
> >
> >
> > --- Dan C <cdan2154@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I like the idea Usman put forward by the time
> those
> > > guys attempt to memorise
> > > 100 labs they will be CCIE's ready without
> knowing
> > > :) Maybe another way to
> > > move forward is for Cisco to have a live
> interview
> > > before the day of the
> > > exam, where you may need to answer few basic questions and prove
> > > that you have the experience needed to move to the next level...
> > > who knows....
> > > my2cents, Dan
> > >
> > > On 4/17/07, Usman Ali <usman198@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello all Gurus ,
> > > > I think it is very desperate for the people
> who
> > > are doing CCIE by studying
> > > > .
> > > > i am working on ccie from last 1 year and quit
> job
> > > only for study and my
> > > > target to pass CCIE in three attempts , if i pass end of this
> > > > year what will be the
> market
> > > of ccie after 3 years
> > > > when there would be more than 50000 CCIE and a
> few
> > > thousands with good
> > > > knowledge ,
> > > > it is very disappointing position is it better to go with IBM
> > > > certification to
> earn
> > > IBM cert you need just
> > > > a few configurations and once a redbook study
> of
> > > the technology , i
> > > > passed IBM SAN solution desinger examine 3
> years
> > > before and it is more
> > > > easy than even CCNA and have a good market
> value
> > > too .
> > > > can cisco make a huge data base of some 100
> labs
> > > you will get one in
> > > > examine or something like this to avoid the
> fraud
> > > .
> > > >
> > > > bye
> > > >
> > > > Usman Ali
> > > >
> > > > Anthony Bonilla wrote:
> > > > > On the same note, one of the proctors in RTP
> was
> > > mentioning that they
> > > > know
> > > > > that lab exams are leaking out being that
> > > whenever Cisco releases a new
> > > > > exam, the passing rate is real low but after
> two
> > > weeks or so, the
> > > > passing
> > > > > rate shoots up to 90% - go figure!
> > > > >
> > > > > When everyone in the room asked why Cisco
> does
> > > not do anything about it,
> > > > he
> > > > > replied that they can't do anything there
> > > because China has no NDA or
> > > > > something to that affect. Or better yet,
> Cisco
> > > should offering this
> > > > exam in
> > > > > those countries to begin with but if this
> > > continues to go on and Cisco
> > > > does
> > > > > not do anything knowing all this is
> happening,
> > > you always wonder if they
> > > > > themselves are involved as well???
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 4/15/07, Darby Weaver
> <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> What everyone on this list in a position to
> > > hire
> > > > >> should do, could do, and ought to do with
> every
> > > single
> > > > >> job candidate, CCIE notwithstanding, is set
> > > them down
> > > > >> in front of some gear and let them show you
> how
> > > and
> > > > >> why they are the person for the job...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2-3 hours in front of gear and you know
> whether
> > > you
> > > > >> have a keeper or... NOT.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lots of people are passing the lab these
> past
> > > few
> > > > >> years...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Not all of them are quite qualified to work
> on
> > > a
> > > > >> full-fledged network with "issues". I'm
> sure
> > > most of
> > > > >> have worked hard and some for some years,
> but a
> > > few
> > > > >> squeak by.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So... if everyone here and everywhere else
> > > maintains
> > > > >> good hiring practices, then I suspect that
> we
> > > will not
> > > > >> have this problem of people passing the lab
> and
> > > > >> getting digits by any means necessary.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Not is they know that the cert alone is not
> a
> > > rubber
> > > > >> stamp to a CCIE-Level position.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> However with a quick romp to the job boards
> and
> > > seeing
> > > > >> postings like:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> CCNA required and CCIE desired... with MCSE
> or
> > > CNE or
> > > > >> Unix experience and oh yes, we want the
> > > candidate to
> > > > >> install MS SQL or MS Exchange or even
> handle
> > > desktop
> > > > >> support issues and Symantec AV etc...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hmmm... What is the point...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Also be careful to apply to jobs that are
> of a
> > > CCIE
> > > > >> caliber as well - once you get the grail.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> =====================================
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One more thing, did anyone ever consider
> that
> > > maybe,
> > > > >> just maybe, Cisco is the one putting out
> the
> > > "real
> > > > >> CCIE Labs" and if they are I suppose the
> > > proctors have
> > > > >> a lot of fun watching things not quite work
> for
> > > > >> candidates whenever they pass through...
> > > Here's a
> > > > >> little but not quite a lot...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That is kind of sadistic... Especially
> since
> > > they may
> > > > >> even have the names of the buyers...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hey - how many people come report back on
> GS
> > > and say
> > > > >> they cannot figure out what went wrong...
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hah!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> LOL
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hmmm...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Close but no cigar...
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- CCIEwnaB <cciewnab@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> OK smart peeps,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I have a friend who is currently working
> on
> > > her
> > > > >>> CCNP, and keeps giving me a
> > > > >>> hard time for not having passed the lab
> yet (1
> > > > >>> failed attempt under my belt) but I'm still hitting it hard
> > > > >>> and will be
> > > going back
> > > > >>> in another 2 moths.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Anyway, she's convinced that when she
> finishes
> > > her
> > > > >>> last NP test she'll just
> > > > >>> pay the $1200 to the folks who shall
> remian
> > > nameless
> > > > >>> and study the "3 real
> > > > >>> CCIE labs" and pass on the first attempt."
> I
> > > agree
> > > > >>> with what's been said
> > > > >>> here so many times before, that the cert
> only
> > > means
> > > > >>> something if you truly
> > > > >>> are an expert and have earned it. So let's
> not
> > > get
> > > > >>> everyone all wound up.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> That being said, does anyone have a few
> > > stories I
> > > > >>> can share with her, that
> > > > >>> might be helpfull in keeping her on the
> "HIGH
> > > ROAD".
> > > > >>> I keep trying to tell
> > > > >>> her, she's going to pay $1200 for a couple
> > > useless
> > > > >>> old files and then what,
> > > > >>> go to the proctor on test day and say, hey
> > > this
> > > > >>> isn't the test I was
> > > > >>> expecting you must have made a mistake?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I'm sure there are other folks here who
> have
> > > fallen
> > > > >>> for it, please share
> > > > >>> your experiences so my friend will see the
> > > light and
> > > > >>> not surrender to the
> > > > >>> dark side...she knows who she is
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > >
> >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue May 01 2007 - 08:28:36 ART