From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Mar 18 2007 - 20:24:27 ART
Wouldn't it be nice...
If there were a Techno-Skill Disney Land?
A place where a person could go to learn hard-core
technical skills in an efficient cost effective
manner.
A place where communication skills and customer
service skills are not only taught but are a part of
the culture itself.
A place where one could come at any stage in one's
career and learn it all and apply it...
A place where one would be taught to not only compete
in a best-effort manner, but to win each time a person
has to go into the wild and compete for a top-level
job, mid-level job, or even entry-level job.
Hmmm...
Who offers this for a CCIE? Who? Is it even needed,
and would people pay for such a Mecca of knowledge and
skills tranfer?
And comments?
--- Daniel_Steyn@Dell.com wrote:
> I think that many companies do not know how to
> recruit technical people,
> which is part of this problem. I don't think that
> they specifically
> want to hire CCIEs and pay them 30 Gs to screw them
> over - I think that
> it is more of a recruiting error and not knowing any
> better. Let me
> explain...
>
> I believe that at the top of every non-technical
> company are
> non-technical people making decisions. Take a shoe
> store for example.
> All that a shoe store owner has to know is how to
> manufacture/sell shoes
> and do a good job with it. At some point, will he
> need a network?
> Absolutely! How does this man go about hiring a
> lead network engineer?
> He could go to a staffing firm (which is probably
> the best idea as he
> doesn't know what is involved) or he could go and
> search monster for
> "network engineer" and see that people are looking
> for CCNAs, CCNPs and
> CCIEs. This is probably why there are postings on
> monster and dice
> today saying "CCNA or CCIE preferred" and paying
> 30Gs. I think that
> this is because the recruiter has no idea what is
> actually involved to
> get these certifications - but knows that others
> want people with those
> skills. I'm sure that you have all seen those out
> there. Any posting
> asking for a CCIE or a CCNA obviously has some
> bigger issues to deal
> with - so don't bother applying for those!
>
> Also, how does a non-technical person go about
> hiring a networking
> director? If you are the best man for the job but
> only list that you
> have expert understanding in BGP, OSPF, EIGRP, NAT,
> etc. - this is Greek
> to the recruiter. All that the person hiring wants
> to know is that you
> know "networks". You can be the best engineer in
> the world - but if you
> don't know how to communicate with non-technical
> people (including
> recruiters) - your career opportunities will be
> limited. Maybe this is
> also why the CCIE is known for its ambiguous
> questions.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Morris
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:31 AM
> To: 'emad fahmi'; 'Darby Weaver';
> iyux2000@gmail.com;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's
> - Listen carefully.
>
> I think that would be up to the company who happens
> to be hiring, and
> you'd probably start hitting the major job boards
> like monster,
> careerbuilder, dice, etc.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
> _____
>
> From: emad fahmi [mailto:emad_fahmi123@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 6:58 AM
> To: Scott Morris; 'Darby Weaver';
> iyux2000@gmail.com;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's
> - Listen carefully.
>
>
> can anyone tell names for agencies specified for
> giving H1B for CCIEs
> Thanks
>
> Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
> Not to dispute (or debate) many of the things that
> you state in here,
> however.... If you have your 250-500K house and
> multiple 40-80K cars and
> have children in the best schools, perhaps this is
> why, even at $100K,
> many
> people cannot afford to take vacations.
>
> There is a difference between working to live, and
> living to work. Not
> only
> should you work on salaries in line with other
> comparable professionals
> (there are plenty of surveys to cite), but you
> should temper how much of
> that "American Dream" you try to bite off all at
> once.
>
> Too many Americans have that "American Delusion"
> going on. Drowning is
> debt
> is not the dream, but often the reality for those
> who overextend.
>
> Just my two cents....
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> Provider) #4713,
> JNCIE
> #153, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
> IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> smorris@ipexpert.com
> http://www.ipexpert.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Darby Weaver
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:34 AM
> To: iyux2000@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: OT: CCIE Salary - For people taking H1-B's
> - Listen carefully.
>
> If you are non-U.S. citizen and you get your CCIE
> and want to work in
> the
> U.S...
>
> Listen up and listen well.
>
> About the average U.S. salary for a CCIE is around
> $115,000.00 U.S.
>
> What does this mean to you?
>
> It means that some U.S. companies may try to lure
> you here for say less
> than
> $50,000.00 U.S. and take a bit of advantage of the
> fact you want to work
> in
> the U.S.
>
> My advice: Turn them down... Cold.
>
> Here's why:
>
> Any U.S. company that wants to hire you based on
> your CCIE status is
> going
> to profit greatly from hiring you.
>
> Now, there literally about 1000 companies looking
> for CCIE talent every
> single day - no matter how many pass the lab that
> day...
>
> Supply and Demand.
>
> My advice - learn to negotiate. Let them give you a
> number.
>
> If it is under $100,000.00 U.S. - they did not want
> you anyway and if
> they
> did you may find later it was probably better you
> waited just a bit
> longer
> you could have doubled or tripled your salary.
>
> Sound outrageous?
>
> Go to www.monster.com and www.dice.com put your
> resume online and
> wait...
>
> Won't take long...
>
> If fact put it up before you get your CCIE, you may
> be amazed at the
> opportunities that are presented to you even at the
> CCNP level.
>
> Mention your lab experience (even if you fail) on
> your C.V.
>
> Make the American Dream work for you too...
>
> This also applies to your friends in I.T who are
> DBA's and other I.T.
> Professional.
>
> Once you take the job you will be slaving away like
> the rest of us and
> your
> stress level will improve since you will be able to
> afford a
> $200-500,000.00
> home or even better, you will be able to afford a
> couple of nice
> $40-80,000.00 cars and your children will be able to
> attend the best
> schools
> in your city of choice.
>
> I promise you will hate yourself every single day
> that you go to work
> with
> your CCIE certification, knowing that the CCNA who
> just got out of the
> Cisco
> Academy is making more than you are and is driving a
> better car while
> you
> are walking to work from the closest apartment
> complex.
>
> So learn to negotiate, - I feel so strongly about
> this matter, I will
> negotiate for you or give you personal tips if you
> like.
>
> No more free lunches for companies - an H-1B only
> costs a few thousand
> dollars to obtain...
>
> Hey, even if you take a 30k salary and double it to
> 60k you win and they
> still got you at 1/2 the price - so they win...
> (Still you are being
> robbed).
>
> We call this a WIN/WIN in the U.S. Corporte
> Environment and you can
> still
> afford to eat at McDonald's for lunch at least.
>
> Which when you get here - you may notice that your
> H.R people may never
> eat
> at McD's... and your co-workers in I.T. seem to
> avoid like the plague...
>
> Which by the way... also kills your ability to
> fraternize with your
> co-workers - they think you are avoiding them, the
> truth is they spend
> more
> on lunch than you spend on bus fare... to get to
> work.
>
>
> Now the rub - if a company turns you down, you will
> be surprised at how
> quickly the next one makes a play for you.
>
> It is the United States and we have literally
> thousands of companies.
>
> In the end, you will have to do what is best for you
> and your family.
>
> However, if you take a minimum wage CCIE job... you
> will likely have to
> wait for maybe 2 years or more to move your family
> here while you wait
> in
> the H-1B to get approved and finalized...
>
> All the while, you are missing your wife or husband
> and your kids are
> growing up barely seeing their daddy or mommy.
>
> Don't get me wrong you can fly to see them (at least
> say $700-1000.00 or
> more for a flight) but now this continues to drain
> your salary
> further...
>
> And did anyone tell you about "Uncle Sam" and local
> state taxes and
> Sales
> and Use Taxes during the interview - never mind
> withholding for Social
> Security and FICA...
>
> Yep - your 30k - just got raped and diminished about
> $10k at least...
> and
> if you have to start using credit cards or buy that
> car - you are going
> to
> pay interest as well...
>
> My wife (Venezuela) tells me all the time how people
> in her country -
> even
> the lowest paid workers can afford quality health
> care and vacations...
>
> Many people in the U.S. with under $30k salaries go
> without healthcare -
> they need the cash to get by.
>
> Many people in the U.S. with $100K+ salaries do not
> take vacation and
> some
> companies seem to even frown on it... others require
> you take it.
>
> Choose wisely.
>
> OK - I just was talking with another friend of mine
> who is getting / got
> raped and is alive to tell the tale...
>
> So...
>
> Learn to negotiate - it may be worth more than a
> handful of tech certs
> and a
> Master's in Technology combined...
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sun Apr 01 2007 - 06:35:51 ART