From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Feb 17 2007 - 16:44:11 ART
I did not say that you can audit the entire 5 days of boot camp, obviously
no one will allow that, but i think you should know within few hours if you
like the boot camp, here is what I would do:
X How are the lectures conducted? Is every thing in the blue print
covered?
X How long has the instructor been around? Did he just get his CCIE
yesterday and now he is teaching a CCIE class, how long has he been
teaching?
X Are they teaching you to pass, or are they teaching you the stuff?
X How is the instructor explaining some of the difficult issues, does
he/she just go over them, or does the instructor explain the entire thing.
X Talk to the students and i mean every one of them to see if they are
all happy. Ask the students what they would change in the boot camp, that
way you will know the weak points.
X Why do the students like the instructor? That way you will know the
strong points.
X Is the instructor answering all the questions, helping them with the
labs, do they have lab problems (Equipments and etc).
X How is the staff (If there is one)?
X Do they have a separate work book for the boot camp? Or are they just
covering what you can purchase online?
X Are you paying 4000 5000 for a slide show? Or maybe you paid 4
5000 and did not get slide show. My personal opinion is that if the
instructor does not have the ability to getup in front of students and
perform a thorough chuck talk without slide show, that instructor should
start teaching A+ or even a CCNA class, but then again that's my opinion, an
instructor should engage every student in the lecture and pump the students
boost their confidence and so forth.
That's what i am talking about. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not
recommending that you should definitely go with www.ccbootcamp.com just
because I am teaching there, understand that I will get paid with or without
you, and the firms that I mentioned are fantastic in what they are offering
as well, you are talking about the top few in the world, it's just some
times you just don't click with the staff or the instructor, and I would
definitely like to know before I pay the money and waste my week there and
get frustrated.
On 2/17/07, Tim <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Narbik,
>
> If a person can audit a class for free, why would anyone pay to take the
> class?
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Narbik Kocharians
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:10 PM
> To: Darby Weaver
> Cc: saurabh khera; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Startup for CCIE (R& S) LA
>
> I only have one recommendation:
> If you can, you should audit major vendors boot camp and then YOU decide
> who
> you should go with, i must add they are all great: ccbootcamp.com,
> IPexpert,
> Netmaster and internetwork expert.
> If a vendor does not allow you to audit, i would not go with them.
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Saurabh,
> >
> > Welcome to Groupstudy's CCIE List.
> >
> > I'll assume you have passed the CCIE Written Exam, and
> > if so have a certain familiarity with most topics that
> > are on the lab.
> >
> > 1. Go to cisco.com/go/ccie and take a look around
> > there - you will find the CCIE Lab Outline among other
> > things.
> >
> > 2. If you decide to go with a vendor, there are
> > several and since you got this far, you probably are
> > quite proficient with using search tools - this forum
> > has answered this question at least hundred if not a
> > thousand times already and the answers have not really
> > changed that much over the years and no matter how
> > many times asked.
> >
> > I will tell you that currently, I myself have had good
> > experience with all vendor workbooks (yep - I have
> > used them all if nothing else than for additional
> > reading material), and I am going to instead point you
> > to another direction - first.
> >
> > Not that you cannot just totally blow me off and think
> > I am a bit insane for suggesting you actually read the
> > books, do some real exrecises, and gain additional
> > insight before asking the vendors to simply fill your
> > head with concepts, terms, tips, tricks and valuable
> > advice that you are probably not yet ready to
> > comprehend yet. And no offense is intended - none at
> > all.
> >
> >
> >
> > Since you are new, go to lulu.com and search for CCIE,
> > you will find Tom Larus, he offers a free guide to the
> > CCIE Lab. It is dated and is not quite up to date,
> > but you owe it to yourself to have a look and it is
> > free so it won't hurt to look.
> >
> > Here is the specific link:
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?_shopSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%
>
>
2Fbrowse%2Fsearch.php&_helpSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fhelp%2Fsearch.
>
>
php&_forumSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fforums%2Fsearch.php%3Fmode%3Dre
>
>
sults&search_forum=-1&search_cat=2&show_results=topics&return_chars=200&sear
> ch_keywords=&keys=&fSearch=ccie&fSearchFamily=0
> >
> > Watch the wrap.
> >
> > Not to insult but if you search lulu.com for CCNA, you
> > might also find CCNA - Learning by Doing.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?_shopSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%
>
>
2Fbrowse%2Fsearch.php&_helpSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fhelp%2Fsearch.
>
>
php&_forumSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2Fforums%2Fsearch.php%3Fmode%3Dre
>
>
sults&search_forum=-1&search_cat=2&show_results=topics&return_chars=200&sear
> ch_keywords=&keys=&fSearch=ccna&fSearchFamily=0
> >
> > So either way you can download free or purchase a
> > printed copy for easy reading.
> >
> > I would advise starting here first. Get a feel for
> > things.
> >
> > Now that you have read these and hopefully done these
> > exercises and got into the groove of expectations.
> >
> > Go to ebay.
> >
> > Perform a search on CCIE. Look for a guy named Matt
> > Weber.
> >
> > He offers a quick CCIE RS lab Outline - perhaps
> > 150-200 pages or so that he will send you a print copy
> > of.
> >
> > Nice package with a lot of experience and practical
> > advice for a little pocket change.
> >
> > Again, I'm going to hep you out:
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/CCIE-Lab-Study-Guide_W0QQitemZ300081690012QQihZ020QQcate
> goryZ51202QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> > Now I have found the following items to be invaluable
> > and each of the vendors in question will reference you
> > to them as well - so I'll save you the trouble and
> > tell you now.
> >
> > 1. InternetworkExpert.com - Tons of good and free
> > links and tips on their site - NTP, FRTS, and Subnet
> > Mask Calculations come to my mind - but there is a lot
> > more there for free and available just for stopping
> > by. - By the way the three I just mentioned to you
> > are probably worth at least 8-9 points on your lab
> > whenever you go.
> >
> > 2. Netmasterclass.com - they have a wealth of papers
> > on their site and there are probably 20-30 pdfs freely
> > available for your usage and perusal - take a look and
> > enjoy the free scenery. - Things like Multicast,
> > Native VLAN, Redistribution, BGP topics, RIP, etc.
> > stand out like a sore thumb and will likely serve you
> > well in the lab - 10-12 points or so.
> >
> > 3. IPExpert.com - Join get an account - take
> > adavantage of the CCNP and CCIE eScnearios - here you
> > will find a wealth of knoweldge freely available. I'd
> > say you can round up at least another 10-12 points not
> > covered anywhere up above or below. So get them while
> > they last.
> >
> > 4. CCBootcamp.com - look around they might refer you
> > to their Public FTP Site and if you are keen enough to
> > find it, you will also have found a wealth of items
> > that you may want to peruse including some current and
> > relevant CCIE Advice and lots of other freebies as
> > well - Frame Relay Setup is there as I recall - just a
> > lot of good overall and general info. I'm sure a
> > careful eye can find some items that will save some
> > pitfalls later.
> >
> > 5. http://www.cisco.com/univercd/home/home.htm - Make
> > it your homepage. Bookmark it. Learn it, Live it, Eat
> > it, Sleep it, and I even want you to be like Alice in
> > Wonderland and dream it.
> >
> > Every vendor will point you here - recall what I told
> > you about searching, I want you to use this every time
> > you have a problem, a doubt, a concern, etc. If you
> > see a table, find it in here. Regular Expressions -
> > they are here and I want you to tell me where.
> >
> > Got it. No forgivemess if you pass this one up.
> >
> > I'll be you at least 21 point in your lab are going to
> > be in here somewhere and you get this resource while
> > you are taking the lab.
> >
> > It is your best friend - get the meet and greet over
> > with.
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================
> >
> > Now of you need gear or lab time - Ebay Rulez!
> >
> > So take a moment and look before you "Buy-it-Now" and
> > you'll do quite well.
> >
> > I do advise you consider rack rental vs. rack
> > ownership since if you do the math. Rack Rental may
> > be more affordable.
> >
> > ======================
> >
> > Finally, about 3 months later...
> >
> > You are now ready to but some books, allow me to help
> > you in your selection - recall you are not yet ready
> > for full-scale labs yet.
> >
> > Cisco Press - TCP/IP Volume I - Doyle - Why not save
> > frustration and start right here. There are enough
> > labs and every vendor will refernce Doyle - but if you
> > are smart you have already been here and done that.
> >
> > Cisco Press - Cisco Press - Frame Relay Switching -
> > Take a moment - buy the book do the practicals and now
> > you own a nice layer 2 topic and FRTS as well.
> >
> > Cisco Press - LAN Switching - Kennedy Clark - Again,
> > every single vendor will point you here - save
> > yourself some time and read it till you know it - 1x,
> > 2x, 3x etc.
> >
> > At this point, you are a very well-armed consumer and
> > you are pretty savvy about IGP's, Frame Relay, and
> > Switching topics - even FRTS and some queueing
> > techniques.
> >
> > Now, I ask you to think about where you are and what
> > you need next?
> >
> > So why not consider Dr. Parkhurst, after all he is or
> > was a CCIE Lab Proctor and did add a couple of books
> > to the selection list.
> >
> > Cisco Press - OSPF
> >
> > Cisco Press - BGP
> >
> > Cisco Press - Troubleshooting Routing Protocols comes
> > next. The guys at TAC did some nice work here and you
> > can benefit for your lab as well.
> >
> > Cisco Press - TCP/IP Volume II - You loved Vol I (2nd
> > edition), and now you will love Volume II - maybe even
> > more. Again all your favorite vendors will suggest
> > this one as well.
> >
> > So by now you have most of your topics well under
> > control - but wait there is more:
> >
> > 1. QoS - Cisco Press has a nice offering by Wendell
> > Odom. Take a look - lots of goodies.
> >
> > 2. IPv6 - Cisco Press has two offerings here that are
> > very worthwhile.
> >
> > 3. Multicast - Allow me to point you again to Dr.
> > Parkhurst - this time the book is out of print and the
> > publisher is McGrawhill - not the latest information
> > in some regards, but an excellent primer. May I
> > suggest half.com - might cost you $5.00-$10.00 with
> > shipping.
> >
> > 4. BGP - Cisco Press - Halabi and there is a BGP
> > Design offering as well. If you are going to buy one,
> > why not buy them both.
> >
> > 5. Cisco Press - Practical Studies v1/v2 by Karl Solie
> > - out of date but hey - it is Cisco Press and it is a
> > good structure to 90% of the topics and might be cheap
> > on half.com.
> >
> > 6. CCIE R&S Labs - Cisco Press - 6 more labs - out of
> > date... But who is counting. More insight and
> > "wording" from the people who love to torture you most
> > - you guessed it and Gorito is the author of this
> > offering.
> >
> > ====================================
> >
> > Now my friend you are 6-12 months into your studies,
> > you have read a small library and you might be ready
> > to look at our favorite vendors.
> >
> > You are going to read and practice the technologies at
> > least a little bit before you make a major investment
> > into bootcamps and lab workbooks, aren't you?
> >
> > I think you will also have earned a certain respect
> > from the vendors when you either meet them in person
> > or confer with them through this list.
> >
> >
> > I've given a lot of advice for free - like
> > groupstudy.com and other such forums.
> >
> > Take it for what it is worth. I don't think anyone is
> > going to bash me too badly for this one.
> >
> > Others will have their preferences, but since my
> > preferences for vendors is getting to the point where
> > I know them all by name, CCIE number, and geographic
> > boundary - I might be biased. I also am a customer of
> > all of them.
> >
> > But you asked not which vendor but how to startup.
> >
> > I gave you an answer.
> >
> > Others may differ, but I did give you a fair answer
> > that is probably worth something if used wisely.
> >
> > And I know I left off a few things here and there in
> > terms of references.
> >
> > But you are apparently starting fresh - explore
> > everyone before you commit your cash and loyalty to
> > one or another.
> >
> > Also, use Google.com
> >
> > Stick CCIE in their - you might be surprised at what
> > you might find.
> >
> > So good luck and once you are a bit more primed,
> > educated and ready, you will be able to make an
> > informed decision - you will have visited each of the
> > four major vendors on this list and you will probably
> > be swayed one way or another based on their offerings
> > and what you have red on their respective sites.
> >
> > If you are like me, you might buy them all and become
> > the UBER-CCIE-BUYER...
> >
> > Or you may decide you to only pick one or two.
> >
> > Enjoy the journey...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- saurabh khera <saurabhkheraind@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Group,
> > >
> > > I am starting with CCIE (R&S) LAB preperation ,
> > > kindly suggest how to start
> > > with from begining.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Saurabh
> > > +91-9910462224
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> CCSI# 30832
> Network Learning, Inc. (CCIE class Instructor)
> www.ccbootcamp.com (CCIE Training)
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 Network Learning, Inc. (CCIE class Instructor) www.ccbootcamp.com (CCIE Training)
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