From: Raśl
Date: Thu Feb 01 2007 - 17:41:07 ART
You are right Scott.
That's why at the end of my mail I said:
"But hey, that's just my opinion. Im sure there is market for every vendor, and Im sure that some persons in this list preffer the IPexpert products."
As you said, there is people who will be insulted if you say that you need to put "ip ospf priority 0" on the spokes, but there are candidates who are starting to study and in the CCNA and CCNP books they just said that the DR will be the one who has the highest priority and if equal the one who has the highest loopback.... Until you work with that (and I never seen on production a SP who has Frame Relay using the main interface or a multipoint interface) is when you realize that you need to put that.
My point is, again, IPExpert and InternetworkExpert has different workbooks. Each one uses a different approach. And I like the InternetworkExpert better. Again, Im sure there are persons, like Marvin Greenlee, who preffer IPExpert better.
And Scott, I know that I don't have to say this, but I will, this is not personal (or against IPExpert), actually I admire any guy who is a Quad-CCIE and that it's on lists like this one to help people out.
Cheers!
------------------------------------
CCIE #16048
tel: 81 83894527
fax: 81 83890406
------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: Jueves, 01 de Febrero de 2007 02:10 p.m.
To: 'Marvin Greenlee'; Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez; 'Lay, Rob'; security@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
Just as a side note regarding the "this should be self-explanatory"
items.... Different people have different views on how to learn information, and there should always be some semblance of challenge along the way.
Many things honestly are self-explanatory, and if (at the CCIE level) you need to see how each VLAN is added into a switch, then there are technolgy-focussed labs (1-18) for that. When designing the Routing and Switching Proctor Guide, we did go through some internal debate about the wording, but felt it was better to not insult the intelligence of the candidates by spelling out every single detail. If this was taken too far (if something isn't obvious), then certainly feel free to e-mail me and we'll talk about fixing a problem if one exists. Otherwise, wasting trees and hurting everyone's back for creating significantly larger books didn't seem to help.
On the other hand, labs 37 through 40 took the approach of nothing being obvious. This was to depart from that particular format as well as give candidates an insight into the lab creator's minds when going through these labs. Even more importantly, each of those four labs was created and performed by four different people so you would also gain exposure to different people's views, questions, answers and thinking. (In case you care, Lab 40 is how you may have some insight into my own personal warped sense of humor)
All of this is a journey towards understanding why something works, not just a quick and easy way to understand one person's lab and hope that matches what you see on the real lab too! Not everyone benefits from the same learning styles, but that doesn't make it wrong.
In any event, if you are/were disappointed with anything in particular, feel free to let me know so I can understand your thinking and why it may be different than mine (or whichever developer's). But don't assume one is right or wrong or good or bad. :)
Cheers,
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE #153, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
IPexpert VP - Curriculum Development
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
smorris@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Marvin Greenlee
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:25 PM
To: Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez; Lay, Rob; security@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
The current versions of the IPExpert SP / Security proctor guides do not have questions answered as "this should be self-explanatory".
Internetwork Expert shows their updated Security version as "Coming Spring 2007" and do not list a "class on demand" for security on their website, so it's interesting that you are recommending products that don't exist yet.
As far as the IPExpert updated security WB, I believe that it is either already shipping, or shipping in the next few days, depending on when orders were placed.
You would have to check with the sales team to know for sure.
Marvin Greenlee, CCIE #12237 (R&S/Security/Service
Provider)
IPexpert Senior Technical Instructor
marvin@ipexpert.com
http://www.ipexpert.com
Toll Free (U.S.): +1.866.225.8064
International: +1.810.326.1444
--- Razl Angel Velazquez Rodriguez
<RVELAZQR@migesa.com.mx> wrote:
> In my opinion, by far, the best is
> InternetworkExpert.
> This opinion is based on the R&S, I bought both R&S workbook, and its
> very disapointing the "Proctor Guide" of Ipexpert, because many
> questions are answered as "This should be self explanatory" and that's
> all.
> Besides the cost of InternetworkExpert is 379 USD and the IPExpert is
> 499 for the workbook and 499 for the proctor guide, a total of 998
> USD.
>
> I know that if you want to pass the CCIE you must know, but in my
> opinion if you buy a material to study its because you don't know just
> yet. Consider the Class On Demand of InternetworkExpert too, belive
> me, its worth the money.
>
> But hey, that's just my opinion. Im sure there is market for every
> vendor, and Im sure that some persons in this list preffer the
> IPexpert products.
>
> ------------------------------------
> Raul Angel Velazquez Rodriguez
> CCIE #16048
> tel: 81 83894527
> fax: 81 83890406
> ------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Lay, Rob
> Sent: Jueves, 01 de Febrero de 2007 05:58 a.m.
> To: security@groupstudy.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: CCIE Security Lab Workbook Advice
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some advice on workbooks for the CCIE Security Lab.
>
> I'm currently studying for my CCIE in Security and have been looking
> at both the IPExpert and InternetworkExpert workbooks. I've
> downloaded the samples from both (the internetwork expert one is the
> sample lab from the R&S track) but it seems like the Internetwork
> expert book is provides a much better learning platform.
>
> These books are pretty pricy and I want to get some advice on which is
> best before shelling out for them.
>
> The Internetwork Expert book seems to have a better format, it gives
> the lab scenario and then the explanations afterwards show the full
> configurations which relate to the section, give pointers and I really
> like the "pitfalls" sections which seem to offer some good advice on
> things to watch out for.
> Since this will be my first CCIE lab exam that sort of stuff seems
> really helpful.
>
> Can anyone offer any advice on which is the better book, I'd
> appreciate any comments from people on how they've found working with
> these workbooks.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob Lay CCSP CCNP
> Network Engineer
> Honeywell Network Services
> Direct : +44 (0)1344 656556
> Mobile : +44 (0)7974 451827
> mailto : robert.lay@honeywell.com
>
>
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