From: Alex De Gruiter (Alex.deGruiter@didata.com.au)
Date: Wed Jan 10 2007 - 23:30:18 ART
Maybe the lurkers lurk because we may not necessarily feel like we are
able to contribute useful information to every topic - or there are
other demands on our time that prevent us from doing so.
I can't help but think that maintaining a "rival" forum, while
conceptualizing, designing and allocating assignments to its members,
may prove to be somewhat demanding on time and resource... Especially
when taking on an endeavour as difficult as the CCIE lab. Its an
honorable gesture, and I wish you the best of luck!
I agree with Darby, however, that a forum such as what you already
propose exists. Maybe there are some who find the passive form of
learning more appropriate. I for one have learned plenty from threads
where I have not necessarily contributed.
If Groupstudy is really that bad, why not leave? In your own words, "the
study-group is voluntary"!
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Noel Debouver III
Sent: Thursday, 11 January 2007 11:54 AM
To: Darby Weaver; Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi); ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Lab Study Partner
Because everyone in the group needs to participate. Groupstudy is a
passive study group. Lots of lurkers and not everyone is active.
Why do you call it a cult?
Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why not just use this forum and simply present each section each point
of each technology here?
It is a common forum and available to all.
If your intentions are sincere.
Why not?
Then everyone can benefit. Is that not your stated goal?
Are you offering new scenarios?
What exactly are you offering? Sounds like a cult.
I do not mean to jest.
Good Luck!
--- Noel Debouver III
wrote:
> You take me wrong.
>
> I intend that each area of a technology be fully explored. This means
> the hows/whys of theory, the available configuration options as they
> may pertain to the lab, possible interpretation of questions, and a
> lot of show and debug to ensure that the technology is more fully
> understood.
>
> A simple approach and no vendor is needed.
>
> Now, Cisco has given a certain lab layout via the Accessor and it so
> happens this layout appear to be rumored to be similar to the actual
> lab.
>
> It also appears certain vendors also use a similar topology in their
> study materials.
>
> If you have not noted my obvious disgust for the rampant cheating
> doing on via groupstudy, then you have missed my purpose.
>
> The vendors hawk like vultures on each new morsel that is droppen into
> the lot of sheep that are grazing their.
>
> So they get either new clients or new ways to twist their labs while
> being certain not to actually violate the NDA too badly.
>
> I am offering a study group that is free to the masses and it is
> voluntary based on continued research in a get/give fashion.
>
> It scales very well to those who are ready for the lab and to those
> who are fresh to the grinder.
>
> Do you fault this methodology?
>
> You appear to work for cisco what do you think?
>
>
> Also - as I have never been to a lab that contained any such questions
> - I have not signed an NDA contract to the effect of doing such. So
> please accuse elsewhere. When I go to one and if I see something and I
> repeat what I (saw) then I would be violating a "Non Disclosure
> Agreement".
>
> Thank you.
>
> "Faryar Zabihi (fzabihi)" wrote:
>
> Post NDA violating email...people voice concern about posting...leave
> GS...come back to GS...announce a side study group...divide tasks and
> scenarios between participants...keep updating GS about
> progress..."sharing is caring, we will win"
> Got it...I love the idea.
> Good luck on your studies
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Noel Debouver III
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:16 PM
> To: Noel Debouver III; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Lab Study Partner
>
> Hello,
>
> It seems the list has grown by both leaps and by
> bounds.
>
> Here are some answers to the FAQ's I've already
> received:
>
> 1. The current track being sudied for is RS.
> However, due to overlap
> with SP and Security and to some degree Voice, if
> you are studying these
> tracks you may wish to follow along.
>
> 2. While the study-group is voluntary, participation
> is mandatory.
> I.E. If you want to get the latest updates, you'll
> have to work and
> produce results as well.
>
> 3. While I am insterested in primarily a layered
> step-by-step
> approach, I do realize that some study-group
> participants are more
> advanced than others. I will make assignments per
> subject matter area
> for each of the recognized sections for interested
> parties to complete.
>
> 4. The approach is simple. We are a group of
> like-minded
> professionals who are interested in passing the
> exams as quickly and as
> efficiently as possible, we will learn the
> technologies along the way.
> This means the format of the practices will have to
> be followed to the
> letter. This methodology will transcend any language
> barriers or other
> impedents to our combined success.
>
> 5. It has been a long time since Cert-Nerds from
> Cisco started their
> program of study. Tyler's Landmines have not been
> forgotten.
>
> 6. This type of collaborative effort has not yet
> been realized by
> Groupstudy since its inception although it was
> considered at one time.
> Let's make this a success.
>
> 7. I have heard that I have been referred to as both
> a hero and as a
> complete idiot for posting my queries and making my
> bold statements,
> that most of us in the know, already know to be
> completely true, but for
> obvious reasons no one seems to want to accept. We
> all know why. FYI -
> I think I am neither, I am a learner and I intend to
> learn by whatever
> means necessary.
>
> 8. It is on the basis of the facts in item 7 that I
> have decided to
> break from the culture that has been groupstudy and
> start a new study
> group. Basically, it will be what groupstudy should
> have been a
> technology by technology breakdown, complete with
> exercises and labs for
> each technology including all manner of
> questions/answers, and
> especially lab exercises. Now some may argue, this
> will hurt the
> current vendors who sell labs. Not true, for I, a
> simple lab candidate
> do not hold any one of the current vendor's level of
> expertise, I simply
> am quite methodical in my madness, I do not sleep,
> and am quite the
> machine when it comes to realizing the goals I
> choose to seek.
>
> 9. Every student on groupstudy who truly seeks to
> learn from this
> experiment. If it is true and every technology is
> tested with
> configurations examples (one by one) both completely
> with a written
> breakdown/explanation, extensive questions and
> answers, and complete lab
> examples with both show and debug output for each of
> the examples, then
> we will have created the most explicit documentation
> and training
> materials to date and will have done so for free.
>
> 10. The lab topology to be used will be a similar
> topology as used on
> the both the CCIE Lab and CCIE Accessor. The labs
> will vary and will be
> complete as to the extent of our collective
> imagination, with over
> 10,000 potential lab-study partners that is a lot of
> potential energy.
> Naturally, the exact condigurations cannot be used
> for obvious reasons
> but other vendors use a similar topology that at
> least includes the
> topology used by the CCIE Lab and Accessor Labs. It
> is under this basis
> that this does not break the NDA.
>
> 11. Better Network Engineers by Network Engineer and
> for Network
> Engineers.
>
> Let's see how this program works.
>
> I already have over 100 lab study buddies who have
> been to the lab 0-4
> times each and this list seems to be growing.
>
> Not bad for less than 72 hours or so.
>
> The first assignments will be handed out this coming
> weekend.
>
=== message truncated ===
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Feb 08 2007 - 23:46:56 ART