From: Mark Lasarko (mlasarko@co.ba.md.us)
Date: Mon Feb 13 2006 - 13:04:03 GMT-3
I think this is an important topic so I am going to take the time to elaborate on it
My intended context in stating "lack of challenge" has nothing to do with one being "lazy". "Lack of challenge" would suggest you have little, if anything, to trigger synaptic activity at your current position. Theres nothing wrong with thinking about what you do, most employers even appreciate that!
I never heard a candidate mention this and have interpreted it in a negative way. Most engineers WANT to know MORE.
Take the CCIE for example.
As many have said on this board:
"Getting the CCIE is not the end, but a beginning"
While there are always exceptions to every rule, the majority of these people obviously respect the journey and look forward to learning more, expanding their horizons!
Back to the interpretation - "Lack of challenge" usually has more to do with insufficient budget(s), long gaps between productive/meaningful projects, maintenance leading to endless boredom, working in a "(ARCNET | Token Ring) junkyard". That kind of stuff!
No offense to anyone who works in an actual (auto) junkyard as I know this can be quite fun. And, Yes!, I have done this as a teenager running around stripping auto parts from cars in an old Junker - kind of a mix between a scavenger hunt and demolition derby! That was far more interesting, and educational than some of the assembly-line computer bulid'em and such jobs I have had since then.
There was one point in my career where I was unemployed and turned down five jobs in a row, two dead-end management positions and three repair break-fix technician roles, none of which would have made me happy. I was honest with the potential employers and my honestly led me to a place where I saw a chance to grow and influence the direction of my team and those we service.
Bottom line - if you love what you do - by all means do it! If you're NOT looking for a challenge, NOT interested in new technology or projects, and do NOT wish to expand your horizons - More power to you! (And the more new stuff for the rest of us to play with!)
Of course if you are only concerned about the $'s - then forget EVERYTHING I said as that is far from the top of my list, and the list of *most* I converse with about topics such as this, in management and operations alike. Just do whatever you have to get you the most $'s and fill the time between paydays however you wish (Solitaire, shredding paper, etc...).
And remember, experience and is *usually* more valuable to an employer than certifications, with the exception that you are going for a job where the company NEEDS your certification, as is the case with many resellers of networking gear who require a minimum # of staff with specific certifications to stay in the game. A big part of determining this is becoming familiar with the company and what they do prior to meeting with them - A little research can go a long way and give you the edge you need to be honest with the employer and yourself!
Get it?
~M
>>> CCIEin2006 <ciscocciein2006@gmail.com> 02/12/06 5:59 PM >>>
Thanks everyone for your responses.
As for using "lack of challenge" as a reason to leave your current job,
couldn't that be used against you? For example, couldn't the employer think
you weren't challenged enough because you were too lazy to pursue those
challenges?
On 2/12/06, Mark Lasarko <mlasarko@co.ba.md.us> wrote:
>
> >1. Are you expected to draw some designs on a whiteboard?
> > My drawings are a little sloppy - will that count against me?
>
> As one who has "downshifted" from management to hands-on;
> I have interviewed candidates who should have been applying for
> Positions as graphic arts designers, not network engineers.
> Translation:
> They spent WAY too much time on this, mine and theirs.
> Routers are round, switches square; triangles may be optical gear...
> Maybe different colors in between for fiber vs. copper :-)
> That's about as complicated as any "how would you do this?" should be.
> Documentation IS important, that's what NetViz or Visio is for!
> Some folks who don't draw well like to take a Visio or three of
> Projects they developed on so they can present them if mentioned.
> This often depends on if it is an initial or follow-up interview.
> (If you get thru management then talk to the tech team next)
>
> > 2. If they ask you a question that you don't know the answer to or
> > are unsure of, is it best to say:
> > a. I don't know.
> > b. I would have to research that.
> > c. I haven't worked on that technology much.
>
> Absolutely "A"
> If you need to - add "- but I know where to find out!"
> The can-do attitude never hurts, but don't over-do it.
> No need to elaborate on resources unless explicitly asked.
> Be honest and move on!
>
> > 3. If they ask you "What is your 5 year plan?" -
> > What are some good answers?
> > I am worried that if I tell the manager that in 5 years
> > I would like to be a manager, he might feel threatened
> > That I was going after his position.
>
> Again, be honest, do you WANT to climb the ladder to management?
> There are those who know what they want and those who do not.
> Most of those I have interviewed who KNOW what they want say so.
> Share your desired directions, specializations, certs you are aiming for,
> And other topics of interest, tying them into what you already
> "Bring to the table", and building on what you already know.
> Don't worry about what your potential manager might think.
> They may be positioning for a seat in their manager's office!
>
> > 4. If they ask why I am looking to leave my current job, what are some
> > good answers? The truth is I am leaving for more money but I know
> > companies don't like to hear that you are motivated by money.
>
> 99.8% NEED $'s - 99.9% WANT $'s - and we ALL know this.
> Hence, there is no need to mention it!
> Leave your reasoning to lack of challenge, dead-end job, etc...
> The simpler the better - you need not say too much, candidates
> often dig themselves into a hole in this one and wind up talking
> themselves into a bad close for what may have been a good chat.
>
> HTH,
> ~M
>
>
> >>> CCIEin2006 <ciscocciein2006@gmail.com> 02/12/06 7:07 AM >>>
> Hello group,
>
> I am going on an interview for a network design/engineer position next
> week.
> Being that I haven't been on an interview for a while, I was hoping to get
> some pointers from you guys on what it is like to interview for these
> types
> of positions.
>
> 1. Are you expected to draw some designs on a whiteboard? My drawings are
> a
> little sloppy - will that count against me?
>
> 2. If they ask you a question that you don't know the answer to or are
> unsure of, is it best to say:
> a. I don't know.
> b. I would have to research that.
> c. I haven't worked on that technology much.
>
> 3. If they ask you "What is your 5 year plan?" - what are some good
> answers?
> I am worried that if I tell the manager that in 5 years I would like to be
> a
> manager, he might feel threatened that I was going after his position.
>
> 4. If they ask why I am looking to leave my current job, what are some
> good
> answers? The truth is I am leaving for more money but I know companies
> don't
> like to hear that you are motivated by money.
>
> Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>
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