From: Tom Larus (tlarus@cox.net)
Date: Fri Apr 01 2005 - 12:58:25 GMT-3
At the risk of stating what is obvious to many people, what you get from
a boot camp depends very much on what you know when you start the bootcamp.
Too many people have attended boot camps when they did not know enough
to absorb the lessons being offered.
You meet people who are still finishing the CCNP, yet have booked a CCIE
boot camp. They may be ready for it by the time it rolls around (you
have to book some well in advance), and they may not. If they are not,
then they will struggle to achieve basic connectivity, and the advanced
lessons will sail over their heads.
I know, because I was just barely ready for the bootcamp I took. If I
had attended one month earlier, I would have been hopelessly behind and
many advanced lessons would have been lost on me. As it was, I absorbed
a few of the advanced lessons while I reworked the scenarios after the
class and did some of the extra scenarios that had been provided.
Someone who has already failed the lab twice and then passed after
attending a bootcamp may owe his success in part to his work in the
bootcamp, but he (or she) also must have learned a lot before the
bootcamp to lay the groundwork for success. Do not simply pass the CCIE
written qualifier exam, and then expect to learn everything you need to
know to pass the CCIE from a bootcamp, even a three week bootcamp like
Ulm's. Anyone who ever did that was already a networking guru, and just
needed to hone a few CCIE-test focused skills. There are very few
people like that, and it is usually foolish to assume that you are one
of them.
Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
Stuart.Juggins@computacenter.com wrote:
>I do agree that there are always happy and unhappy customers. I
>personally know of somebody who failed 2 attempts and after going to Heinz
>Ulm's bootcamp passed. He really recommended the bootcamp.
>
>Each to their own I suppose.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>Mariusz.Gajewski@telekomunikacja.pl
>Sent: 01 April 2005 16:25
>To: danshtr@gmail.com; swm@emanon.com
>Cc: gzdillon@hotmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: RE: Anybody heard about this bootcamp for security :
>http://www.heinzulm.com
>
>
>There was opinion some time ago, must admit - not my opinion , never been
>there - you have to judge for yourself.
>As always , there're happy customers and the unhappy ones , and I think
>the one below is in the second group :) :
>
>
>"From: "Werner Herzog" <cisco_study_europe@hotmail.com>
>To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Heinz Ulm : Be careful : very poor quality bootcamp
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:53:30 +0000
>
>Hi ,
>I'd just like to warn people about Heinz Ulm's bootcamp because after
>searching the archives I found no "honest" opinion about the service that he offers.
>I attended his 3 week bootcamp and I must say I was very disappointed with
>
>the course.
>After only a couple of days I realised that I had made a big mistake and
>that I had
>been completely sucked in by his very impressive web site.With all the
>hype which
>he expresses on his site and the so called "opinions" of others about how great his
>boot camp is .... it certainly does not live up to its billing.
>I felt that Heinz Ulm had a lazy and some what laid-back attitude to the
>bootcamp
>and his knowledge a little out dated ("he doesnt even subscribe to group
>study ")
>The so called "stress exercises" are just sample i.q questions you can get
>
>anywhere ...
>
>For the cost of this course and the amount of knowledge you gain ...its
>certainly is
>not worth it. If you have your own set of routers/switches and have good
>workbooks
>then please please save your money and dont attend this bootcamp because
>you certainly
>wont learn any cool tricks or tips that will land the ccie qualification
>in your lap.
>I am sending this not because I am upset with the money I paid and the
>quality of the
>course ...coz im a firm believer in "caveat emptor", but I
>just dont want to see any other person like me spend hard earned money on a venture
>that fails completely to live up to its own "so called" reputation.
>Regards
>A fellow networking engineer "
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Danshtr [mailto:danshtr@gmail.com]
>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:58 PM
>To: swm@emanon.com
>Cc: Gajewski Mariusz; Dillon Yang; Group Study
>Subject: Re: Anybody heard about this bootcamp for security :
>http://www.heinzulm.com
>
>
>This is exactly what I was looking for: former students.
>
>I think the price is OK, for 3 weeks 5800E which is *1.3=7800US$. The
>flying ticket is much cheaper, and I don't have to wait 3 months for a
>visa to the US.
>
>Any other recommendation for a bootcamp?
>
>On Apr 1, 2005 4:50 PM, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
>
>
>>His "about" page says that he's #1561. But I think the price on his
>>bootcamp is more expensive that anyone in Europe travelling to the US
>>and taking a class over here would be. *shrug*
>>
>>Maybe it's worth it, but find former students!
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>Of Gajewski Mariusz
>>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 6:19 AM
>>To: Dillon Yang; Danshtr
>>Cc: Group Study
>>Subject: RE: Anybody heard about this bootcamp for security :
>>http://www.heinzulm.com
>>
>>Hmmm.. Strange , Heinz Ulm is celebrating 10 years being CCIE , but
>>his # is 13794 as his page notes :
>>http://www.heinzulm.com/small_more_pool.php
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>Of Dillon Yang
>>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:47 PM
>>To: Danshtr
>>Cc: Group Study
>>Subject: Re: Anybody heard about this bootcamp for security :
>>http://www.heinzulm.com
>>
>>Hi, Danshtr:
>>
>> In fact, the link can not be opened at all.
>> What do you want to tell us?
>>
>>TIA
>>dillon
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Danshtr" <danshtr@gmail.com>
>>To: "Group Study (E-mail)" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:53 PM
>>Subject: Anybody heard about this bootcamp for security :
>>http://www.heinzulm.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>What do you think about this:
>>>
>>>http://www.heinzulm.com
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Best regards,
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>____________________________________________________________________
>>>__
>>>_
>>>Subscription information may be found at:
>>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
>>_
>>Subscription information may be found at:
>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
>>_
>>Subscription information may be found at:
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