From: Doug.M.Pallette@alltel.com
Date: Sun Nov 14 2004 - 01:16:34 GMT-3
Geez Luiz...the soap opera just won't go away
let me sum this thread up for you so we can kill it
David submitted, what seems to be, an "honest" opinion about something
he purchased(or has knowledge about), and he is granted that right.
This is a public forum for CCIE LAB preparation. He is giving an
opinion on something related to CCIE LAB preparation that could assist
with helping other CCIE candidates in their quest for Cisco greatness.
Maybe the reference to VaporWare pushed it over the top.
IE thought that it might be coming as slander from a rivaled vendor..
Others, are a little disgruntled b/c it come across as bashing IE. All
on this forum know that IE has a top grade workbook, and are enhancing
their products by offering technology based scenarios. Good for them
and good for the consumers.
"And Next week on All My Children" - Bob goes Juniper
David thanks for the info on the subscription, Josh thanks for the Time
Mag analogy, IE, IPExpert, keep up the good work...
Everyone take a break, have a beer, and sit back and relax for 5, then
the air will be cleared, and the 5 minutes of social life can take a
backseat again.
:)
dp
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
David Sloan
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:37 PM
To: jslauer@hotmail.com; swm@emanon.com;
bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com; ccie2be@nyc.rr.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
Once again.. I'm only trying to let everyone here make an informed
decision
before they make a purchase.
Your analogy with Time magazine isn't a good one because time magazine
gives
you the latest news and opinons. This is a subscription based product,
but
if one were to wait a few months, they would be getting a FAR SUPERIOR
subscription.
I have no complaints about the content of the product, it's just very
limited in it's current infant stage.
My suggestion, one may want to wait a month or two before they purchase
so
they are able to get their money's worth.
Thanks Scott.. Actually if Brian was to have done a search on my email
address he would have found a post from a while back.
http://www.groupstudy.com/archives/ccielab/200309/msg00946.html
>From: "joshua lauer" <jslauer@hotmail.com>
>To: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>,"'David Sloan'"
><jadin_321@hotmail.com>,<bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>,<ccie2be@nyc.
rr.com>
>CC: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Subject: Re: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:09:44 -0500
>
>I'm been on this group for a short time and have sampled many different
>products from many vendors...
>
>I would have to disagree with David here, The product from
Internetwork
>expert seems to be a subscription based service...
>Like a magazine subscription, do you get the whole years worth at one
shot?
>No you dont...Ya gotta wait for it, it hasnt been written yet :)
>If you want a bunch of scenarios at once you purchase a workbook, there
are
>several really good ones out there, each with varying levels
>of difficulty. If I had the money I would buy all of them :) I would
call
>InternetworkExperts product about as close to "vaporware" as the Time
>Magazine I get each week in the mail. I think the product
>they are offering seems like it's a good thing and looks like it can
help
>you pin-point problem areas vice doing a whole multiprotocol lab.
>I'm all for companies releasing new materials, I dont mind giving them
my
>money if they provide me the variety I need to keep me
>thinking....IPEXPERT, NMC and INTERNETWORK
>EXPERT have all recieved my money...and I have to say it's ALL been
well
>spent....keep those products coming guys!
>
>
>josh
>
>
>Joshua Lauer
>
>RHCE, CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCSP,INFOSEC
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
>To: "'David Sloan'" <jadin_321@hotmail.com>;
><bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>; <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
>Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:39 AM
>Subject: RE: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>
>
>>Well...
>>
>>I can validate the fact that I haven't got a clue who you are either
way.
>>:) Does that help?
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
>>David Sloan
>>Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 8:58 PM
>>To: bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com; ccie2be@nyc.rr.com
>>Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>Subject: RE: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>>
>>I am not the same person listed as below (I'm sure Scott can tell you
>>that).
>>
>>I just want to inform everyone who is thinking of making a purchase
that
>>they may not be getting what they believe they are. It's very
misleading
>>to
>>mention BGP in the first few sentences of your product's description
and
>>have BGP completely absent from the product.
>>
>>My other claim is most of the subjects listed under each of the
catagories
>>is not available yet, which is true. Only OSPF is available in the
>>routing
>>protocols and only DLSW and QOS is available in the QOS/Security
subjects.
>>Which makes my claim absolutely true, more than half (most) of the
>>subjects
>>aren't available yet.
>>
>>If this doesn't fit the definition of VaporWare it's certainly close.
>>
>>I'm sorry if I appear to be attacking your company, but I want to make
>>sure
>>that everyone in this group knows what they're getting when they make
a
>>purchase.
>>
>>On the otherside, I would never criticize your lab book as I believe
it is
>>the best and you've done an amazing job of transitioning to ipv6 and
the
>>removal of VOIP where the others have yet to do much.
>>
>>
>>>From: "Brian McGahan" <bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>
>>>To: "David Sloan" <jadin_321@hotmail.com>,<ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
>>>CC: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>>Subject: RE: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>>>Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:41:11 -0500
>>>
>>>Hi David,
>>>
>>>I see that the subscription you're logging in to the technologies
>>lab
>>>with is not registered under your name, nor have you ever been a
>>>customer of Internetwork Expert. Furthermore, the only reference I
can
>>>see to a "David Sloan" on groupstudy is the following
>>>post:
>>>
>>>http://www.groupstudy.com/archives/ccielab/200211/msg00503.html
>>>
>>>David A. Sloan
>>>President, IPexpert.net
>>>CCIE #6976, CCSI #21666 (Rt.)
>>>
>>>Is this you David, or am I mistaken? I find it odd that instead of
>>>contacting Internetwork Expert directly for any legitimate product
>>>related questions you instead choose to slander us on a public
mailing
>>>list.
>>>
>>>For those of you wondering about the legitimacy of this claim, yes
>>it
>>>is true the lab series is not complete. However, the idea of this
new
>>>format we're delivering the content in is that instead of waiting
>>>months for a new product to be released, we are offering this series
on
>>>a subscription basis that costs about $12 per month.
>>>
>>>This way we can continue development on the series indefinitely and
>>it
>>>will never become obsolete. In other words the series will NEVER be
>>>complete. I have personally been posting the labs in this series
every
>>>day since its release about two weeks ago. There are currently over
75
>>>labs in the series, such as:
>>>
>>>Understanding Layer 2 Access Switchports Understanding ISL Trunk
Ports
>>>Understanding 802.1q Trunk Ports Understanding 802.1q Trunk Ports and
>>>the Native VLAN Configuring Trunk Ports without DTP Router-on-a-Stick
>>>Router-on-a-Stick and the Native VLAN EtherChannel EtherChannel -
PAgP
>>>EtherChannel - PagP Auto EtherChannel - LACP EtherChannel - LACP
>>>Passive EtherChannel - Layer 3 Frame-Relay Inverse-ARP Frame-Relay
>>>Static Mapping 1 Frame-Relay Inverse-ARP & Static Mappings
Frame-Relay
>>>Multipoint Interfaces: Inverse-ARP Frame-Relay Multipoint Interfaces:
>>>Static Mappings Frame-Relay Multipoint Interfaces: Inverse-ARP &
Static
>>>Mappings Frame-Relay Point-to-Point Subinterfaces Frame-Relay
>>>Point-to-Point Subinterfaces and Main Interfaces:
>>>Inverse-ARP
>>>Frame-Relay Point-to-Point Subinterfaces and Main Interfaces: Static
>>>Mappings Frame-Relay Point-to-Point Subinterfaces and Multipoint
>>>Subinterfaces:
>>>Inverse-ARP
>>>Frame-Relay Point-to-Point Subinterfaces and Multipoint
Subinterfaces:
>>>Static Mapping
>>>Frame-Relay Main Interface: Inverse-ARP, Multipoint Interface:
>>>Inverse-ARP
>>>Frame-Relay Main Interface: Inverse-ARP, Multipoint Interface: Static
>>>Mapping Frame-Relay Main Interface: Static Mapping, Multipoint
>>>Interface:
>>>Inverse-ARP
>>>Frame-Relay Main Interface: Static Mapping, Multipoint Interface:
>>>Static Mapping Frame-Relay Hub-and-Spoke, Main Interfaces with
>>>Inverse-ARP Frame-Relay Hub-and-Spoke, Main Interfaces w/ Inverse-ARP
&
>>>Static Mappings Frame-Relay Hub-and-Spoke, Main Interfaces w/ Static
>>>Mappings Frame-Relay Hub-and-Spoke, Main Interfaces w/ Inverse-ARP &
>>>Point-to-Point Subinterfaces Frame-Relay Hub-and-Spoke, Main
Interfaces
>>>w/ Static Mappings & Point-to-Point Subinterfaces ATM PVC Main
>>>Interface w/ Inverse-ARP ATM PVC Main Interface w/ Static Mapping ATM
>>>PVC Main Interface w/ Legacy Static Mapping ATM PVC Multipoint
>>>Subinterface w/ Inverse-ARP ATM PVC Multipoint Subinterface w/ Static
>>>Mapping ATM PVC Point-to-Point Subinterface ATM PVC Discovery w/ Main
>>>Interface ATM PVC Discovery w/ Multipoint Subinterface ATM PVC
>>>Discovery w/ Point-to-Point Subinterface ATM SVC Static Mapping w/
Main
>>>Interface ATM SVC Static Mapping w/ Main Interface & Static NSAP ATM
>>>SVC Static Mapping w/ Multipoint Subinterface ATM SVC CLIP w/ Remote
>>>ARP-Server ATM SVC CLIP w/ Local ARP-Server ISDN Layer 2 Connectivity
>>>ISDN Legacy DDR ISDN Dialer Profiles ISDN Legacy DDR and Dialer
>>>Profiles ISDN Dialer Load-Threshold ISDN Dialer Load-Threshold (II)
>>>Legacy DDR with PPP ISDN Legacy DDR without Dialer Maps w/HDLC ISDN
>>>Legacy DDR with PPP and Dynamic Dialer Maps ISDN Legacy DDR with PPP
>>>PAP Authentication ISDN Legacy DDR with PPP CHAP Authentication
Legacy
>>>Custom Queueing MQC Bandwidth Legacy Priority Queueing MQC Low
Latency
>>>Queue Legacy Generic Traffic Shaping MQC Shaping Legacy Frame Relay
>>>Traffic Shaping MQC Frame Relay Traffic Shaping Legacy Committed
Access
>>>Rate MQC Policing
>>>DLSw+ TCP Encapsulation
>>>DLSw+ FST Encapsulation
>>>DLSw+ Direct over Frame Relay
>>>DLSw+ Lite over Frame Relay
>>>DLSw+ Direct over HDLC
>>>
>>>If anyone else has any questions related to this product you can
>>email
>>>me offlist or find me on our chat server at
>>>http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
>>>bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
>>>
>>>Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>>>Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
>>>Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
>>>24/7 Support: http://forum.internetworkexpert.com
>>>Live Chat: http://www.internetworkexpert.com/chat/
>>>
>>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf
>>>Of
>>> > David Sloan
>>> > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:06 PM
>>> > To: ccie2be@nyc.rr.com
>>> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>> > Subject: Re: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>>> >
>>> > Because it's their product... Go to their website... It's a new
>>>product.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >From: "ccie2be" <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
>>> > >To: "David Sloan" <jadin_321@hotmail.com>,
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>> > >Subject: Re: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>>> > >Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:02:51 -0500
>>> > >
>>> > >What does the CCIE Routing & Technologies Labs have to do with
>>> > Internetwork
>>> > >Expert (IE)?
>>> > >
>>> > >Those guys at IE, Brian Dennis and Brian McGahan, are giants in
>>> > networking
>>> > >and they've created the best practice labs workbook on the market
>>>IMHO.
>>> > >
>>> > >From the subject line of your post, it sounds like you're
>>> > >slandering
>>>the
>>> > >best ccie prep company out there today.
>>> > >
>>> > >Tim
>>> > >----- Original Message -----
>>> > >From: "David Sloan" <jadin_321@hotmail.com>
>>> > >To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>> > >Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:32 PM
>>> > >Subject: Internetwork Expert and VaporWare
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > > FYI for anyone interested in subscribing to the "CCIE Routing
&
>>> > >Technologies
>>> > > > Labs."
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Most of subjects listed under each of the three catagories
>>> > > > aren't
>>>even
>>> > > > available yet. The most rediculous item is this though. The
>>>first
>>> > >line
>>> > >of
>>> > > > the description is:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "Are you looking to isolate your CCIE lab preparation on an
>>>individual
>>> > >topic
>>> > > > basis? Tired of spending hours setting up a lab topology just
to
>>>see
>>> > how
>>> > >BGP
>>> > > > works?"
>>> > > >
>>> > > > You won't find any BGP here... Yet.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > My advice.. Wait til the vapor materializes.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>>_____________________________________________________________________
__
>>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>>_____________________________________________________________________
__
>>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
_
>>Subscription information may be found at:
>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
_
>>Subscription information may be found at:
>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu Dec 02 2004 - 06:57:43 GMT-3