From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Sun Sep 05 2004 - 13:15:37 GMT-3
Onsite is always an option... E-mail offline and we can work that out.
I'm in Chicago next week (the 14th). :)
Machine's scripts are used to assist the proctor. But all exams are looked
at by human eyes. So no need for the paranoia at the end. A script can
test for many things, but think about ANY lab scenario you have done... Now
try to think about how you would create a set of test procedures that would
OBJECTIVELY test for the results while still not allowing things like
defaults or statics or anything else prohibited.
Do you have any idea how much time it would take to create such a script????
The scripts they have check basic things, and it COULD determine that there
is no possible way for a candidate to pass, so therefore may not need any
more checking. But otherwise, all exams are looked at for final grading by
a human proctor.
They aren't entirely mean, we just can't see (reasonably so) the specifics
of what or how things operate! So people like to speculate!
HTH,
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, CISSP,
JNCIP, et al.
IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
http://www.ipexpert.net
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Jonathan R. Charles
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 1:28 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Cisco Press: CCIE Routing and Switching Practice Labs
If I had gotten a 79, and it had been graded by machine, you can bet your
sweet ass I would want it re-scored... and I would want to know why they
just sucked $1250 from me and failed me when I was that close (and a human
never looked at my configs).
However, when I was in RTP, I asked the proctor about re-scoring the test
for $250...
He said that if you are close, they automatically go in by hand to find out
if they can eek out a point or two (if you aren't close, why waste the
time), so don't bother with the re-score.
But this isn't my primary concern... My real goal here is to find out what
they are looking for, results or process... If your Config gets the right
results, I would argue you should still get the points, even if you came to
that result in an unusual (or even clunky) way.
How many times have you heard it stated that the CCIE lab is NOT a test of
best practices (in fact, most of the scenarios are precisely the worst
designs you could imagine, and I am sure most companies would fire an
engineer who designed a network with a virtual link in OSPF, or didn't use a
default route... (I also, OTOH, understand why it is a great test to
determine whether or not you can deal with all kinds of disasters, most of
which actually exist (then again, most network problems are either layer 1
or 3 (cabling or addressing)) If this is the case, you can not make a
grading argument on elegance of configuration. If it works, you win, if it
don't, you don't.
However, I am well aware that this may not be the case... and there is a
good chance that the tests are just randomly scored.
BTW, I am NOT bitter about my failure... If anything it has made me more
intent on getting a number.
And Scott Morris has become my new God... I just wish there was an IPExpert
bootcamp in Chicago in November/December 2003...
Hmmph... I wonder if I could convince my company to get an on-site class
(considering the great need for CCIEs at my company)
Jonathan Charles
SBC
CCNP/CCDP, NNCSE, NNCSS, MCSE
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of john
matijevic
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 00:13
To: 'Jonathan R. Charles'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Cisco Press: CCIE Routing and Switching Practice Labs
Jonathan,
I have done all the 6 labs and have read the entire book. I like it so much
that I have a forum on my website, and I am giving free rack access for my
rack that is cabled according to the book topology. The lab is graded
according to working configuration, and is done by a proctor. A proctor
wrote the new cisco press book, so it is the closest workbook you can get on
the market to the real exam. I recommend you try a sample lab. As far as the
grading goes, it is kept confidential, they want to keep some parts
confidential and I completely understand. I've also heard that they use
scripts, but I don't know the extent to which they use these scripts. The
reason from what I understand that they keep the grading confidential, and
again don't quote me on this, is because in the past a few bad apples,
meaning candidates would get a 79 and they argued called upper management
CEO about their score demanding that they passed. I think that is part of
why we have the mystery of the grading today.
Sincerely,
John Matijevic, CCIE #13254, MCSE, CNE, CCEA CEO IgorTek Inc.
151 Crandon Blvd. #402
Key Biscayne, FL 33149
Hablo Espanol
305-321-6232
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-CCIE
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Jonathan R. Charles
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 12:59 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: Cisco Press: CCIE Routing and Switching Practice Labs
The real question to ask is:
How the hell is the lab graded?
I know they reboot and then run some type of autotester that checks routing
tables and the like, but is the grading system results-based or
process-based?
So, if I accomplish the goals, and all my routing tables have all the routes
they are supposed to (among other things), do I get the points?
If they say 'set up ____ between routers 3 and 4' do they mean ONLY 3 and 4,
necessitating an ACL to block others, for example? Or do they mean make sure
3 and 4 do it, and it doesn't matter if routers 5, 6 and 8 can also do it?
My greatest fear of the grading is that it is a simple text comparison of
your configs and what the right Config is... So, if I do something a little
differently, I get stomped.
I mentioned this in another thread, but how can I determine if I have met
the requirements before I walk out? The last time I took the lab, I walked
out convinced I had crushed it... (I was convinced wrongly).
It almost seems like a crapshoot (yeah, your Config worked, but it wasn't
the method we were looking for, so no plaque for you).
Jonathan Charles
SBC
CCNP/CCDP, NNCSE, NNCSS, MCSE
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Fewkes
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 23:51
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Cisco Press: CCIE Routing and Switching Practice Labs
Jonathan,
I love the book. I think I will end up getting more out of it than the CCIE
practical studies. There are 6 labs, 3 based on a single 3550/8 router
topology, and 3 based on a double 3550/8 router topology. After each lab
there is an 'ask the proctor' section intended to give clues, which i love,
and then an extensive debrief.
it also seems very much like the real thing to me (i have made 2 attempts),
and it is even co-written by maurilio de paula gorito, who was my proctor in
san jose my first attempt. so the guy knows what you need to know in order
to pass.
tim
>
>
>
> My greatest stumbling block right now is not seeing realistic
scenarios. I
> have heard good and bad things about Cisco Press (one that Cisco
doesn't'
> really have anything to do with these books, so they are not going to
give
> you any info of any use. The other, from my own experience, that they
are
> the best out there (especially Doyle, Halabi Solie, Parkhurst (whose
OSPF
> and BGP command references are the greatest things since sliced bread,
when
> is he going to write one for IS-IS, EIGRP, and every other Cisco
topic???)
>
>
>
> Anyway, has anyone taken a look at the CP Practice Labs?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Charles
>
> SBC
>
> CCNP/CCDP, NNCSE, NNCSS, MCSE
>
>
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