From: David Duncon (david_ccie@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Aug 05 2004 - 23:18:08 GMT-3
You are spot on, Richard.
I agree at this level , one has to make sure their conceptual understanding
is tight , otherwise with a shaky foundation, their exam tries can run in to
double digits. Even otherwise, one is not doing justice to their number if
they pulled the exam by just practicing or memorizing commands on 3
different lab books.
As they say , "learn the concept and that will stay with you for long time
and you can tackle any scenario " , where as "if you learn a scenario or
situation , then you are bound get panic when you see a different scenario
or situation".
I am glad I asked this Q because 2 things I have picked up here. Firstly as
Tim said it is worth while to focus on one technology as at a time and drill
as much as you can by keeping TIME LINES in your mind along with clear
conceptual understanding. Secondly as you said, the real fluency (config as
well as deciphering what author wants) can be picked up by writing down the
config on a simple paper. And if you can do that time and time again , then
certainly you are on track and it is a mtter of time before you go home with
your number :-)
I appreciate your advise.
David.
>From: "Peasah, Richard Kwame" <rpeasah@ku.edu>
>To: "David Duncon"
><david_ccie@hotmail.com>,<ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>,<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Subject: RE: Strategy to tackle this beast :-)
>Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 20:19:42 -0500
>
>Great post David. Now here's what I did which may or may not work for
>others but it worked for me b'cos that's my learning style.
>
>I don't do well at repetitive tasks. I get bored and loose my focus very
>quickly leading to sloppiness, etc. Hence, the repetitive typing of
>similar ios commands after commands, something you need to do with the
>commercial labs environment, is a bit much for me. So, here's what I did
>after failing 5 times. I bought a commercial lab (yes I bought another
>commercial lab) and instead of rushing to the rack and spewing out
>commands I grabbed a pencil and paper and began solving the issues,
>technology after technology as suggested by David. This is similar to
>writing pseudocode. In this way I took my time and thought through the
>issues to figure out the exact requirements, no more no less. Remember,
>figuring out what the scenario is asking for is the KEY to passing. You
>will be amazed how tough it is to do this but what you gain is
>immeasurable. Writing out your logical thinking as to how you will solve
>a complex BGP traffic engineering scenario without typing out any meds,
>as-path prepending, local-preferences, etc, can be quite daunting and
>challenging and for some people, boring or silly. However I found it to
>be quite useful and exactly what I needed to do in order to discern the
>exact requirements. This enabled me to really mobilize all the amassed
>knowledge and experience accumulated to engage in an analytical process
>of deciphering and solving the issues presented. Afterall that's what
>the lab is about. Right? Solving problems. I used this approach for like
>75% of this commercial lab. Next I signed up for some mocks. Went back
>to the paper and pencil approach to fill the gaps, then went for the
>real deal and bingo! Success at last. For me it was just a matter of
>understanding the requirements and that is the KEY. Repeat this to
>yourself every time you tackle a scenario! Understanding the
>requirements is the KEY! I'm assuming here that as a Lab candidate you
>already have a solid understanding, familiarity and experience with the
>IOS code. If you don't then no strategy is going to you at this stage (I
>could be wrong though, but highly unlikely). There're no short cuts.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>David Duncon
>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 7:27 PM
>To: ccie2be@nyc.rr.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: Strategy to tackle this beast :-)
>
>Sound like a plan , Tim. Well said.
>
>Thanks for your time.
>
>David.
>
>
> >From: "ccie2be" <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
> >To: "David Duncon" <david_ccie@hotmail.com>, <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> >Subject: Re: Strategy to tackle this beast :-)
> >Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:05:15 -0400
> >
> >David,
> >
> >I agree with you that it's important to have a strategy and a good
>solid
> >preparation plan. That will get you far.
> >
> >That said, I think it would be prudent of you to purchase a practice
>labs
> >workbook. I'm using Internetwork Expert's workbook and Solution Guide
> >which
> >I feel is fantastic. Now, even though each lab covers a broad range of
> >technologies, you don't have to do a complete lab before going on to
>the
> >next lab. If you want and I think this is a good idea, you can focus
>on
> >one
> >particular technology at a time. For example, you can do just the ATM
> >portion of all 20 labs and thereby become very proficient in
>configuring
> >ATM. As a side benefit, you also will get a sense of the level of
> >difficulty and the scope of what's expected as far as ATM is concerned.
> >Then, after you're very proficient with one technology, you can do the
>same
> >with each of the other technologies.
> >
> >If you take this approach, there is one caution I have for you. Don't
>get
> >the false impression that if something isn't covered in any practice
>lab,
> >then you don't need to be concerned with knowing it. As you probably
>know,
> >Cisco says that anything that can be done in IOS is fair game for the
>lab.
> >So, for example, although so far I haven't seen any QoS over ATM stuff
>on
> >any practice labs, knowing how to configure the various ATM traffic
> >parameters and knowing where to find the details on the Doc CD would
> >probably be a wise move. But, on the other hand, you can probably
>safely
> >assume, that if something isn't covered in any practice lab, it
>probably
> >isn't something that will kill your chances of success in the real lab.
>
> >So,
> >continuing with the ATM QoS line of thought, if you don't know how to
> >configure this, you'll either lose a couple of points or precious time
> >trying to figure it out if it's on the lab, but not knowing this won't
>make
> >your IGP's not work. In other words, you can consider this topic a
> >non-core
> >topic.
> >
> >By focusing intently on one technology at a time, you'll become much
>faster
> >at configuring that technology plus you'll also learn where to find
>things
> >on the Doc-CD which is also important to your success in the lab.
>You'll
> >also learn some things that aren't explicitly covered in any labs. For
> >example, if you have to configure alot of vlans on a 3550, there are a
> >couple of ways accomplish that. You can first create each vlan, then
>go
> >back and assign ports or you can just assign a port to a vlan and let
>the
> >3550 automatically create the vlan if it doesn't already exist.
>However,
> >there are scenarios when this method can't be used. But, by focuses
> >intently on 3550 technology, you'll learn this stuff so well that when
>you
> >take the lab, you won't need to spend any time thinking about these
> >things.
> >And, you'll also learn quick ways to verify config's.
> >
> >Now, there's something you said which I have to disagree with.
>Personally,
> >I think 2 1/2 hours to complete all the L2 tasks is too long by about
>an
> >hour. I suppose it's possible to take 2 1/2 hours to complete the L2
>stuff
> >and still pass the lab, but I also think it's highly unlikely unless
>the
> >lab
> >has 30 or more points on L2 stuff.
> >
> >A while ago I would have also recommended taking the lab for the first
>time
> >before you were 100% confident you could pass it. This was so you
>could
> >get
> >a feel for what to expect. Now, a number of firms offer a simulated
>lab
> >which is far less expensive than the real lab and will also give you a
>good
> >sense of what to expect but with the added benefit that you'll get some
> >detailed feedback which can help you identify areas of weakness.
> >
> >My last recommendation is to read the postings on this forum. There
>are a
> >bunch of truly great and knowledgable guys that participate on this
>forum
> >and you can learn a great deal from what they have to say. Since you
> >already mentioned some of these guys, it appears you're already on the
> >right
> >track.
> >
> >HTH and good luck in your preparations. Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "David Duncon" <david_ccie@hotmail.com>
> >To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 2:17 AM
> >Subject: Strategy to tackle this beast :-)
> >
> >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > As I am in the process of designing the required strategy towards my
>1st
> >lab
> > > attempt which is happening in the next 6 months, just want to
>capture
> > > thoughts of numbered people out here. Being a passive listener since
>
> >last
> > > few weeks, I have noted few success as well as failure stories. To
>my
> >mind
> >,
> > > any body who came this far and willing to subject to this long and
> >demanding
> > > (both from time as well as monitory point of view) path , are
>diligent
> >and
> > > capable people. From the offset what appears to me is, to tackle
>this
> >beast
> > > , we need to have a strategy in place , besides willingness to work
>hard
> >and
> > > invest required funds.
> > >
> > > This is what I am currently put in my head and appreciate if you add
>
> >your
> > > valuable input which can help any new comers like myself.
> > >
> > > 1) Lower the pressure on my self from very beginning by preparing to
>go
> >as
> > > far as 3 attempts (or even further if I am not good enough even at
>my
> >3rd
> > > attempt) to get my number. That will immediately leave me out as
> >"favorite
> > > to take the number home on my first attempt". So I am not feeling
>any
> > > pressure from now on and I will try NOT to panic during my first
> > > attempt/exam as well. With this school of thinking , I hoping to
> >exercise
> > > realistic expectations on myself.
> > >
> > > 2) Secondly as I said above, strategy is what makes the difference
> >between
> > > success stories and failure stories. So my strategy is to have a
> >"building
> > > block" approach. That is with out getting intimidated with the vast
> >nature
> > > of this exam blue print and also to certain extent by other CCIEs
> >around,
> > > for example like in this Study group forum where some lower numbered
> > > member's posts are very in depth and very intimidating for a new
>comer.
> >But
> > > that is OK.Because as Howard once said in his post, all CCIEs are
>NOT
> > > Surgeons , some are just Doctors. And you got to work hard even
>further
> >even
> > > after you become a CCIE. To become Surgeons like people such as
>Scott ,
> > > Brian's , Bob , Andrew, Howard , Mark and Chuck ..etc , all new
>CCIEs
> >need
> > > to continue their "quest" for knowledge as long as they are in Comms
> >arena.
> > >
> > > So now my aim is to become a Doctor/i.e... CCIE to begin with and
>there
> > > fore I am not trying to fathom the whole Internetworking
>technologies to
> >the
> > > extent of Surgeon.
> > >
> > > 3) Instead focus the exam blue print . And even then Not to get
>carried
> >away
> > > with continuous research with out giving or delaying the exam. For
> >example
> > > like the other day, some one asked the question of "how far to study
>the
> > > ATM" or "how far to study the IPSec" or for that matter this
>morning I
> >was
> > > thinking about how far to study Bridging ?
> > >
> > > Since *time factor* is critical here , I am planning to be very
>clinical
> >and
> > > deliberate in my approach. For example , there is no need to try and
> >invest
> > > time to understand how the RIF in Token ring builds or for that
>matter
> >how
> > > the translational bridging work. Instead worry only about Ethernet
> >Bridging
> > > and that is what will be tested in the exam. On you way if you pick
>up
> > > broader understanding on various Bridging technologies , then that
>is
> >fine.
> > > But because if you do not have time to digest RIF or MPLS (just for
>an
> > > example), then do not worry.
> > >
> > > The reason why I am saying this because , most of us who are working
>in
> >the
> > > industry already must be exposing ourselves to various technologies.
>For
> > > example besides my bread and better Routing and Switching operations
>,
> >since
> > > last few months I am also involved in few Security (reasonably
> >familiar
> > > with VPN 3k ,PIX & CPNG ) and Voice ( VoFR, Voice Gateways.
>Transcoders
> >,
> > > CMsetc) projects. But the bottom line is , from exam point of view
>as
> >far
> > > as Voice is concerned, I only need to go as far as configuring FXS
>voice
> > > ports, configuring pots and Voip peers , Digit manipulation and MLS
>Qos
> >on
> > > Voice vlans ..etc. Nothing more , at least for this R & S exam and
>do
> >not
> > > worry about on how SRTS works or how to build complex Translational
> > > rulesetc.
> > >
> > > But knowing that well in advance is a welcome step to me. That way
>my
> >target
> > > is not a * moving target* or ever expanding target.
> > >
> > > 4) Coming to my strategy again, in my first attempt itself, I am
>aiming
> >to
> > > pick up full allotted marks on L 2 technologies like
>3550s,Dlsw+,Frame
> >Relay
> > > and ISDN. Because I think it will be pretty disappointed after all
>this
> > > effort , you can not even bring up the L2 in a decent time in the
>exam.
> >I
> >am
> > > aiming to clock around 2 to 2 1/2 hours to bring up L2 in my lab
> >practice
> >as
> > > well. And then I will really be aiming to pocket marks on multi
>services
> >as
> > > well such as Qos , Multicast , DLsw + and Security and IP Services
> >..etc.
> > >
> > > That will give me 50 % of the marks already , I reckon. And I will
>be
> >happy
> > > if I score that much in my first attempt. And I will also aim to
>score
> >as
> > > many points as possible in the other 50% which occupies the meaty
> >portion
> >of
> > > L3 stuff.
> > >
> > > 5) As far as L 3 is concerned , that 50 % of the marks are unknown
>and
> >you
> > > can get bamboozled on any single protocol. Correct if I am wrong ,
>even
> > > though you know how independently configure every single L3
>protocol,
> >and
> >if
> > > you screw up the *Redistribution*, then basically you lost the game
>and
> >you
> > > can not ping all interfaces and you can not see the appropriate
>Route
> >tables
> > > on all devices.
> > >
> > > Having realized this from beginning , at worst case scenario, I will
>be
> > > aiming to score as many full marks as possible on independent L 3
> >protocols.
> > >
> > > 6) Redistribution being one of my weakest areas besides Multicast &
> >Dlsw+
> >,
> > > I am planning to sort out that guy in my second or 3rd attempt as I
>am
> > > thinking it may be helpful for me to participate a physical or an
>online
> > > boot camp with any of these top vendors out here. And that way I can
> >develop
> > > that sort of logical to get my redistribution on my 2nd or 3rd
>attempts.
> > >
> > > I feel already lot better on this building block approach , in the
>sense
> >I
> > > will not become terribly upset (neither about 6k to k odd investment
>nor
> > > about 3 or 4 attempts) about next 12 month road in front of me. And
>also
> >by
> > > being this positive , realistic & methodical , I am not making the
>lives
> >of
> > > my wife and kids miserable every time I reach home with a depressed
>out
> >look
> > > of life :-) After all this is just an exam where 14k people have
>already
> > > passed , so that this is by no means an "Impossible task". May be it
>is
> > > different/difficult than all the Uni exams we all have went
>through.
> > >
> > > That factor of "difference" in the exam is precisely what is making
>me
> > > exited because that different path of preparation is what making me
>a
> >better
> > > engineer from yesterday to today. And I am sure after 12 month of
>study
> >and
> > > after 3 or 4 times of failure, I can even get better and hopefully
> >become
> >a
> > > Doctor by then in Howard words :-)
> > >
> > > Your input is much appreciated.
> > >
> > > David.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > 10,000 children need sponsors change a life:
> > >
> >http://ad.au.doubleclick.net/clk;9294008;9739733;y?http://www.worldvisi
>on.com.au/childsponsorship/search/child_search.asp?om=1
> > >
> > >
>_______________________________________________________________________
> > > Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials
>from:
> > > http://shop.groupstudy.com
> > >
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Smart Saving with ING Direct earn 5.25% p.a. variable rate:
>http://ad.au.doubleclick.net/clk;7249209;8842331;n?http://www.ingdirect.
>com.au/burst6offer.asp?id=8
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Please help support GroupStudy by purchasing your study materials from:
>http://shop.groupstudy.com
>
>Subscription information may be found at:
>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Sep 03 2004 - 07:02:33 GMT-3