From: Patrick (pjm@nfld.net)
Date: Sat May 22 2004 - 14:13:30 GMT-3
I agree, I used the R&S workbook while preparing for my lab and the service
I recieved was great, second to none.
Patrick
----- Original Message -----
From: "MMoniz" <ccie2002@tampabay.rr.com>
To: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>; "'Tim Last'" <packtmon@yahoo.com>;
"'Jan K'" <jan_k@verizon.net>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 1:37 AM
Subject: RE: which workbook?
> My 2 cents is I have ALWAYS received prompt, professional service from
> IPExpert...
>
> not to mention the most mind enticing views for a lab...or not...maybe it
is
> YOUR mind!!!
>
> It is one thing to favor someone!!! no problem with that!!!
>
> But this bashing S$#$$ really sucks!!!!!
>
> This really PO's me...not that you care...I don't really either!!!
>
> Maybe one day u will be a quad also!! And write your own!!!
>
> Mike...PO'd
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Scott Morris
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:44 PM
> To: 'Tim Last'; 'Jan K'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: which workbook?
>
>
> Ok, now I'm going to have to jump in here... Some of these conversations
> really aren't safe to jump into, but others you don't have a choice....
>
> I'm not sure who told you that IPExpert claims a lack of support on
products
> was because of anything along the lines that you laid out there.
>
> There are some problems with support, yes. There are a lot of products,
> yes. Are the two directly related to each other? No.
>
> There is a LOT of stuff being done to both enhance the products, expand
the
> product line AND bring about quality and timely support on the web site.
Is
> it perfect? No. Is it being improved? Yes. Is it of tantamount
> importance? Absolutely.
>
> There are many steps being taken to make it a successful product all
around,
> and unfortunately, one side effect of having lots of exposure is that,
well,
> you have lots of exposure and people criticize things to the point of
> bordering on ridiculous.
>
> While there are holes in plans, I find it difficult to believe that your
> experience was truly as lacking as you seem to point out. I would be
> willing to bet that (like most) reality lies somewhere in the grey area in
> between the extremes.
>
> I'm not attempting to make any excuses, nor offering any. As much as I
can,
> I apologize about past inconsistencies or problems that have arisen, but I
> whole-heartedly believe that things are not only better, but still
improving
> as it is indeed an important area as you have mentioned.
>
> Without trying to drag this down into the realm of being a shameless plug,
> there are many good things about the IPExpert workbook series as a
wonderful
> prep tool. There are also (and continue to be) many improvements and
> enhancements to the product over time. As an instructor (not just
> IPExpert's instructor, but as an instructor in general) there is much to
be
> said of the learning style approach and "path" that the IPExpert books
take.
>
> The market offers many alternatives, but I hate to see one bashed so bad
not
> only that I work for, but that is based on inconsistent or incorrect
> premises.
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, CISSP,
> JNCIP, et al.
> IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
> IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
> http://www.ipexpert.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Tim
> Last
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:01 PM
> To: Jan K; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: which workbook?
>
> Personally, I can't say anything about ccbootcamp's workbook. Haven't
seen
> it. But, if you're interested, I would just go to their web site and see
if
> they have a sample lab and Solution Guide for the sample lab. If they do,
> then do the same with IE and compare.
>
> Then try to find out about their support. Believe me, nothing is worse,
> nothing is more frustrating and nothing wastes more time than having a
> problem figuring out why something doesn't work and not being able to get
> any help. That was the biggest problem with IPExpert. Their "support"
> WASN'T. It was practically non-existent.
>
> And, because there were so many mistakes in their labs, having good
support
> was all the more important and necessary.
>
> IPexpert claims that they can't support their products because they have
so
> many products and there just aren't enough qualified people available to
> provide support. But, as far as I'm concerned, there product isn't
complete
> if they support it. And, they charge so much for it as well. It's
> terrible.
>
> Then, if you're satisfied the product is good and the support will be
good,
> then compare prices and decides which workbook will give you the most bang
> for your buck.
>
> Then get to work. The lab is gonna change again on August 1st.
>
> HTH
>
> Jan K <jan_k@verizon.net> wrote:
> I'm seeing all this talk about NMC, IPExpert and IE, but how about Network
> Learning (ccbootcamp.com)? They were probably one of the first ones out
> there with a workbook a few years ago. Is the latest version (12.2) still
> any good? How does it compare to the other three?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Jan
>
>
>
> From: "Tim Last"
>
>
>
> > Danny,
> >
> > I tend to agree with you as far as usually getting what you pay for.
> However, in this case, I think that common adage isn't true.
> >
> > I don't have first hand experience with the NMC workbook but about a
month
> ago, when I was considering which workbook to get, I spoke to a buddy of
> mine (who is now a ccie after about 5 attempts) and asked him about the
NMC
> workbook which he had purchased.
> >
> > (BTW, I had bought the IPExpert workbook and wasn't happy with that for
> several reasons. They were full of mistakes, they didn't include a
Solution
> Guide, and their support was almost non-existent)
> >
> > He told me he was disappointed with the NMC workbook for 2 primary
> reasons:
> >
> > a) They had far too many mistakes and compared to the real lab
> >
> > b) They seemed to have an unrealistic focus on weird and convoluted
> redistribution problems.
> >
> > So, I got the IE workbook and it's fantastic. Based on my own experience
> taking the real lab, IE's practice labs are very comparable in the level
of
> difficulty of the real lab and the type of problems one can expect to see,
> Their Solution Guide is a work of ART, and there are very few errors of
any
> sort. So far, I've only come across a few minor typo's but nothing that
> like the errors that were in the IPExpert workbook which had busloads of
> logic errors.
> >
> > In addition, IE's support site actually provides support. If you take a
> look at it, you'll see how often Brian McGahan (and sometimes Brian
Dennis)
> has responded to questions with answers that actually answer people's
> questions.
> >
> > Then, if you consider how much you'll learn compared to how much you
have
> to invest, $200, I think it's the best deal available today by far.
> >
> > Again, I can't say anything about NMC from personal experience, but
having
> suffered through the lack of support from IPExpert and the huge volumes of
> errors in their workbook, I can tell you, those 2 problems combined make
for
> a horrorable experience. Remember that when someone is trying to figure
> stuff out and trying to master this technology, when there's a logic
> problem, it's hard as hell to know, at first, if the problem is a result
of
> not understanding the technology or how the commands actually work or
> because there are inconsistancies between the task you're trying to do and
> the solution.
> >
> > Then, if you add the fact that IPExpert doesn't provide decent support,
> the result is that you end up wasting huge amounts of time and not
learning
> the material and understanding what the networking problems are and what
you
> need to do to solve them.
> >
> > Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
> >
> > Tim
>
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