RE: which workbook?

From: MMoniz (ccie2002@tampabay.rr.com)
Date: Sat May 22 2004 - 01:07:50 GMT-3

My 2 cents is I have ALWAYS received prompt, professional service from
IPExpert...

not to mention the most mind enticing views for a lab...or not...maybe it is
YOUR mind!!!

It is one thing to favor someone!!! no problem with that!!!

But this bashing S$#$$ really sucks!!!!!

This really PO's me...not that you care...I don't really either!!!

Maybe one day u will be a quad also!! And write your own!!!

Mike...PO'd

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Scott Morris
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:44 PM
To: 'Tim Last'; 'Jan K'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: which workbook?

Ok, now I'm going to have to jump in here... Some of these conversations
really aren't safe to jump into, but others you don't have a choice....

I'm not sure who told you that IPExpert claims a lack of support on products
was because of anything along the lines that you laid out there.

There are some problems with support, yes. There are a lot of products,
yes. Are the two directly related to each other? No.

There is a LOT of stuff being done to both enhance the products, expand the
product line AND bring about quality and timely support on the web site. Is
it perfect? No. Is it being improved? Yes. Is it of tantamount
importance? Absolutely.

There are many steps being taken to make it a successful product all around,
and unfortunately, one side effect of having lots of exposure is that, well,
you have lots of exposure and people criticize things to the point of
bordering on ridiculous.

While there are holes in plans, I find it difficult to believe that your
experience was truly as lacking as you seem to point out. I would be
willing to bet that (like most) reality lies somewhere in the grey area in
between the extremes.

I'm not attempting to make any excuses, nor offering any. As much as I can,
I apologize about past inconsistencies or problems that have arisen, but I
whole-heartedly believe that things are not only better, but still improving
as it is indeed an important area as you have mentioned.

Without trying to drag this down into the realm of being a shameless plug,
there are many good things about the IPExpert workbook series as a wonderful
prep tool. There are also (and continue to be) many improvements and
enhancements to the product over time. As an instructor (not just
IPExpert's instructor, but as an instructor in general) there is much to be
said of the learning style approach and "path" that the IPExpert books take.

The market offers many alternatives, but I hate to see one bashed so bad not
only that I work for, but that is based on inconsistent or incorrect
premises.

Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, CISSP,
JNCIP, et al.
IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
http://www.ipexpert.net

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Last
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:01 PM
To: Jan K; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: which workbook?

Personally, I can't say anything about ccbootcamp's workbook. Haven't seen
it. But, if you're interested, I would just go to their web site and see if
they have a sample lab and Solution Guide for the sample lab. If they do,
then do the same with IE and compare.

Then try to find out about their support. Believe me, nothing is worse,
nothing is more frustrating and nothing wastes more time than having a
problem figuring out why something doesn't work and not being able to get
any help. That was the biggest problem with IPExpert. Their "support"
WASN'T. It was practically non-existent.

And, because there were so many mistakes in their labs, having good support
was all the more important and necessary.

IPexpert claims that they can't support their products because they have so
many products and there just aren't enough qualified people available to
provide support. But, as far as I'm concerned, there product isn't complete
if they support it. And, they charge so much for it as well. It's
terrible.

Then, if you're satisfied the product is good and the support will be good,
then compare prices and decides which workbook will give you the most bang
for your buck.

Then get to work. The lab is gonna change again on August 1st.

HTH

Jan K <jan_k@verizon.net> wrote:
I'm seeing all this talk about NMC, IPExpert and IE, but how about Network
Learning (ccbootcamp.com)? They were probably one of the first ones out
there with a workbook a few years ago. Is the latest version (12.2) still
any good? How does it compare to the other three?

Thanks. 

--
Jan

From: "Tim Last"

> Danny,
>
> I tend to agree with you as far as usually getting what you pay for.
However, in this case, I think that common adage isn't true.
>
> I don't have first hand experience with the NMC workbook but about a month
ago, when I was considering which workbook to get, I spoke to a buddy of
mine (who is now a ccie after about 5 attempts) and asked him about the NMC
workbook which he had purchased.
>
> (BTW, I had bought the IPExpert workbook and wasn't happy with that for
several reasons. They were full of mistakes, they didn't include a Solution
Guide, and their support was almost non-existent)
>
> He told me he was disappointed with the NMC workbook for 2 primary
reasons:
>
> a) They had far too many mistakes and compared to the real lab
>
> b) They seemed to have an unrealistic focus on weird and convoluted
redistribution problems.
>
> So, I got the IE workbook and it's fantastic. Based on my own experience
taking the real lab, IE's practice labs are very comparable in the level of
difficulty of the real lab and the type of problems one can expect to see,
Their Solution Guide is a work of ART, and there are very few errors of any
sort. So far, I've only come across a few minor typo's but nothing that
like the errors that were in the IPExpert workbook which had busloads of
logic errors.
>
> In addition, IE's support site actually provides support. If you take a
look at it, you'll see how often Brian McGahan (and sometimes Brian Dennis)
has responded to questions with answers that actually answer people's
questions.
>
> Then, if you consider how much you'll learn compared to how much you have
to invest, $200, I think it's the best deal available today by far.
>
> Again, I can't say anything about NMC from personal experience, but having
suffered through the lack of support from IPExpert and the huge volumes of
errors in their workbook, I can tell you, those 2 problems combined make for
a horrorable experience. Remember that when someone is trying to figure
stuff out and trying to master this technology, when there's a logic
problem, it's hard as hell to know, at first, if the problem is a result of
not understanding the technology or how the commands actually work or
because there are inconsistancies between the task you're trying to do and
the solution.
>
> Then, if you add the fact that IPExpert doesn't provide decent support,
the result is that you end up wasting huge amounts of time and not learning
the material and understanding what the networking problems are and what you
need to do to solve them.
>
> Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
>
> Tim

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