From: Ricardo Ferreira (ricardo.ferreira@quadcomm.com.br)
Date: Wed May 12 2004 - 17:00:19 GMT-3
That's the big question... Being an expert and that means to be ready and
prepared to any challenge in the real life. That's what I believe Cisco
wants from every CCIE candidate and they have the right to check if you are
ready for carrying the number after your name...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
To: "'Brad Spencer'" <bradsp@outworks.net>; "'Dmitry Volkov'"
<dmitry.volkov@rogers.com>; "'CCIE# 12388'" <Nettable_walker@hotmail.com>;
"'Church, Chuck'" <cchurch@wamnetgov.com>; "'Teck PhrEAk!!'"
<phreakinphunk@hotmail.com>; <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>; <security@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
> You're missing the point then... And I really hate to come off this way,
> but if you are looking for simple, straight-forward certifications, go
look
> at the A+ or Microsoft or TIA certs.
>
> Now, that being said... There's a LOT of information that could be on the
> CCIE lab. It's not up to those of us who come up with prep lab stuff,
it's
> up to Cisco. When you go through things in real life, you don't always
get
> to pick and choose the best stuff to work with.
>
> Prep material, by definition, should be thorough but also leave room for
> differences. Are you going to get pissed because your prep lab made you
> learn FST encapsulation for DLSW but your real lab 'only' did TCP? What
> about the other way around?
>
> Kind of along the lines that you can't please everyone all the time, you
> can't always pick what's going to be on a lab. Cisco has a huge amount of
> things to choose from. And being an Expert does not mean that you really
> care whether FST or TCP is used, but the fact that you can adapt and
> implement either of them if the requirements call for it. The R&S is
> Enterprise focussed. There is the widest breadth of topics that appear
> here. Security, Voice and Service Provider are a bit more tightly
focussed
> if that helps any.
>
> As I've said in many posts before, nobody can know it all. But when you
> break things down to general technologies and learn those, you'll find
that
> there are many similarities throughout the stuff we have to learn. The
> details can be found on the DocCD. If you're familiar with it though, you
> won't be caught off guard by anything. THAT is the type of skillset
(IMHO)
> that Cisco is looking for in an Expert. Not the fact that you have
> memorized what the SAP values are in order to crank down a DLSW peer.
>
> The functionality of Cisco's equipment has NOTHING to do with what you get
> hit with on the exam. You're looking for something real life, but
> unfortunately, you seem to be forming your opinion around your perception
of
> real life. Which is completely different than my perception, which is
> likely a lot different than many other people's perceptions on this
list...
>
> The point, as you have illustrated there, is that you "nearly memorize for
> each exam." That's not an expert.
>
> As Albert Einstein once said, "Any fool can know. The point is to
> understand."
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, CISSP,
> JNCIP, et al.
> IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
> IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
> http://www.ipexpert.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Spencer [mailto:bradsp@outworks.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:50 PM
> To: 'Dmitry Volkov'; 'Scott Morris'; 'CCIE# 12388'; 'Church, Chuck'; 'Teck
> PhrEAk!!'; groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
> security@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
>
> As paying CCIE lab customers we need to see a well documented hardware and
> knowledge list that consistently matches CCIE lab preparation
> recommendations. Over generalizing or under generalizing the recommended
> preparation material is counterproductive and makes for unhappy CCIE
> customers.
>
> I have invested many thousands to be a Cisco aficionado, but I don't see
> myself being so diehard in recommending Cisco equipment if I ever fail any
> Cisco exam due to over generalized or under generalized Cisco test
> preparation material.
>
> I have only seen the CCSP tests so far and I found the preparation
material
> to be fairly deep, enough to give me enough knowledge to figure things out
> in the field. The actual test questions I found were either too easy to be
> on the exam or were questions that did not belong on the exam based on the
> Cisco press study book - which I nearly memorize for each exam.
>
> Anyway, that is my experience and concerns with Cisco certs so far.
>
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Dmitry Volkov
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:35 PM
> To: 'Scott Morris'; 'CCIE# 12388'; 'Church, Chuck'; 'Teck PhrEAk!!';
> groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
security@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
>
> IDS and Conc were announced since Sept 29 2003. And it passed MANY months
> until they actually appeared (actually I don't know if it actually
happened
> at all :) This was NOT fair game. People had to buy all this stuff despite
> it was not tested at all.
> I believe that CCIE Sec should know Conc and Appliance and It's right way
> that it's in the list know and year ago it was not in the hardware list.
> Nobody can know everything and if test includes something - it must be
> tested - in general. It perfectly reasonable that somebody gets some
stuff
> on lab and somebody else - doesn't (like IDS on IOS or IDS on Linux),
> however it's not reasonable if it's listed but actually is never tested.
> Otherwise - why Lab equipment is listed on "Prepare for the Lab exam" page
> at all ?
>
> P.S. Despite I'm kind of grumpy here - I'm personally happy that I learned
> Conc and ids 4.1 :o)
>
>
> Dmitry
> R&S/Sec
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> > Scott Morris
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:56 AM
> > To: 'CCIE# 12388'; 'Church, Chuck'; 'Teck PhrEAk!!';
> > groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
> > security@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
> >
> >
> > Absolutely true! Look at the economics. :)
> >
> > I know it's been a while since anyone mentioned it, but these things
> > all fall into the category of "Anything is Fair Game"... Know it all!
> >
> > You may get a lab that doesn't have IDS. You may get a lab that has a
> > LOT of IDS. Do you know before you show up which lab you're getting?
> > No.
> >
> > In the R&S.... You may get DLSW, or you may not. You may have L3
> > stuff spread throughout your switches, you may have a simple L2
> > architecture. You never know.
> >
> > Just like the Boy Scouts say... "Be Prepared"
> >
> >
> > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> > CISSP, JNCIP, et al.
> > IPExpert CCIE Program Manager
> > IPExpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> > swm@emanon.com/smorris@ipexpert.net
> > http://www.ipexpert.net
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of CCIE# 12388
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:00 PM
> > To: Church, Chuck; Teck PhrEAk!!; groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com;
> > ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Church, Chuck" <cchurch@wamnetgov.com>
> > To: "Teck PhrEAk!!" <phreakinphunk@hotmail.com>;
> > <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>;
> > <security@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:20 AM
> > Subject: RE: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
> >
> >
> > > Sumit,
> > >
> > > The NDA pretty much states that you're not allowed to describe
> > > anything you see or hear in the lab. Asking other people these
> > > questions is asking them to violate the NDA. Your best and
> > safest bet
> > > is to know everything on the blueprint/equipment list
> > inside and out.
> > > On the bright side, looks like you can get an IDS on EBAY
> > for about $350
> > > right now. VPN conc is around $1500. If you plan on reselling them
> > > when you're done, it's probably cheaper in the long run
> > than a wasted
> > > lab attempt.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chuck Church
> > > Lead Design Engineer
> > > CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE
> > > Wam!Net Government Services - Design & Implementation Team
> > > 13665 Dulles Technology Dr. Ste 250
> > > Herndon, VA 20171
> > > Office: 703-480-2569
> > > Cell: 703-819-3495
> > > cchurch@wamnetgov.com
> > > PGP key:
> > >
> > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=cchurch%40
> > wamnetgov.
> > > com
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]
> > On Behalf Of
> > > Teck PhrEAk!!
> > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:25 AM
> > > To: groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
> > > security@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: VPN and IDS boxes!!!!
> > >
> > > Man!
> > >
> > > I dont see how asking for what topics to study for, for the exam is
> > > breaking the NDA??
> > > Even if someone wants to ask a question with all the right
> > intentions
> > > and without crossing the line.....someone always brings up the NDA
> > > thingy........guilt??........maybe.
> > >
> > > Would you appear for an exam (costing $1250) not to mention
> > > international air tickets and accomodation and the oh! so expensive
> > > training/books and equipment rentals without knowing what to study??
> > > Without knowing all the topics covered??
> > >
> > > I WOULDNT....for me its in excess of $5000/attempt...have to travel
> > > half-way around the globe for an attempt.....and dont
> > expect to shock
> > > myself with hardware that i have never worked on before.
> > >
> > > Sumit P. Ahuja
> > > CCIE(R&S)#11125,CCDP,CCNP,RHCE,SCSA,MCSE,IBM e-Com CCIE Security
> > > Candidate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Tony Schaffran" <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com>
> > > >Reply-To: "Tony Schaffran" <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com>
> > > >To: "'Teck PhrEAk!!'" <phreakinphunk@hotmail.com>,
> > > ><ccielab@groupstudy.com>, <security@groupstudy.com>
> > > >Subject: RE: VPN and IDS boxes in Security Lab.
> > > >Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:51:13 -0700
> > > >
> > > >I am certain that someone mentioned this the last time you asked.
> > > >
> > > >Please do not ask specifics about the lab. For someone
> > that has taken
> > > >the lab and answer you, it would be a violation of the NDA.
> > > >
> > > >If it is on the equipment list, then consider it in the lab.
> > > >
> > > >Tony Schaffran
> > > >Network Analyst
> > > >CCIE #11071
> > > >CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > >NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > > >
> > > >www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > >Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]
> > On Behalf Of
> > >
> > > >Teck PhrEAk!!
> > > >Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:49 PM
> > > >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com; security@groupstudy.com
> > > >Subject: VPN and IDS boxes in Security Lab.
> > > >
> > > >Does any one know if the VPN and the IDS boxes have been
> > introduced in
> > > >the Lab exam yet??
> > > >
> > > >I am getting conflicting reports bout this...so dont know
> > to prepare
> > > >for it or not. Also i dont have access to these boxes.
> > > >
> > > >On the Cisco web-site it DOES appear in the equipment list though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >HAALLLLPPPP!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >_________________________________________________________________
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