From: Andy Hoang (ahoang@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue Apr 20 2004 - 20:07:02 GMT-3
This reminds me of an accounting final I had to take back in college.
You were to take the result from one problem and use that as input for
the next problem and so on. I screwed up on the first problem, but got
the rest of the exam perfect. The professor flunked me and I had to
repeat the class. Needless to say I was quite pissed, but that's the
way it was. Yes it wasn't fair, but I had to play by the professor's
rules.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
ccie2be
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:40 PM
To: Bill Lijewski; 'Brian McGahan'; 'Edward Kelly'; 'Volodymyr
Levytskyy'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: boot camp again
I would have to echo that frustration that Bill talked about.
I just recently took the lab and found out that the scoring is worse
than I had thought it was. I knew that for each individual section
assigned points it was all or nothing. I also knew that to get points
for task A which depends on task B being done correctly, then both task
A and B must be done correctly. But, here's what I didn't know.
Suppose BGP isn't working & you discover it's because of an underlying
IGP problem, for example, a certain route isn't in the route table so
the peering (which is 100% correctly configured) isn't working. You
can't figure out how to fix the IGP problem so you decide to break the
rule about static routes figuring you lose the points for not getting
the IGP but, at least, you'll get the points for BGP. Well, according
to the proctor I spoke with, you won't get either the IGP or the BGP
points - EVEN THOUGH YOUR BGP CONFIG MIGHT BE 100% CORRECT.
Personally, I think that's NOT right or fair, especially because of the
great deal of interdependencies designed into the lab. But, I don't
make the rules. But, that's how it is.
As a result, I think the section point allocation is very misleading.
When you add the all the points assigned to IGP tasks and say it comes
to X%. That's not really true because if you miss something in IGP upon
which many other things depend, you lose those points as well regardless
of whether the dependent task was configured 100% correctly. As the
proctor told me, "Your score is results oriented. If something doesn't
work, you lose the points."
Take it for what it's worth.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lijewski" <bill@eccie.com>
To: "'Brian McGahan'" <bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>; "'Edward
Kelly'" <ekelly@areazero.net>; "'Volodymyr Levytskyy'"
<Volodymyr.Levytskyy@logicorp.ca>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: boot camp again :) [bcc][faked-from]
> I would agree with Brian. Most of the people that I talk to are
> frustrated with the grading on the exam. They don't know why they
> didn't receive full credit for a section and they get no feedback from
> Cisco. If you don't know what you did wrong it is very easy to repeat
> the same mistakes the next time. We have been running a Mock Lab,
> that people are allowed to take remotely, which simulates the real
> lab. When they are completed with the lab it is graded by hand and a
> detailed report is written for each person explaining why they lost
> points or what they could have done differently. They receive a
> step-by-step walkthrough of the lab and they also have the opportunity
> to talk to the person that graded the exam, to clarify any questions
> that may remain in their minds. We have been doing this since August
> of last year and the feedback from the students has been great. They
> will find something that they didn't know or have been consistently
> doing wrong and the best part, according to them, is that they get
> feedback. No matter who, what, or how, I think that the feedback you
> can receive from a Bootcamp / Mock Lab is invaluable.
>
> - Bill Lijewski
> CCIE#8642
> Network Learning Inc
> 5 Day R&S CCIE Bootcamp Instructor
> bill@eccie.com
> www.ccbootcamp.com (Cisco Training)
> 1-702-968-5100
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Brian McGahan
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:30 AM
> To: Edward Kelly; Volodymyr Levytskyy; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: boot camp again :) [bcc][faked-from]
> Importance: Low
>
> Ed,
>
> > ...Then again, you can always ante up the $1250 to Cisco and take
> > the exam, you'll find out in no uncertain terms *exactly* what you
> > need to concentrate
> > on...
>
> This is not necessarily true. It is more common that I see students
> who don't understand why they failed as opposed to students that do
> understand why they failed. As I'm sure many of you can attest to,
> the score report that Cisco provides after an unsuccessful attempt is
> rarely indicative of how you thought you performed. This was the main
> motivation for the new mock lab class format that Brian Dennis and I
> developed.
>
> By subjecting students to the conditions of the lab (8 hours for lab
> plus 30 minutes for lunch), grading the lab on a point scale of 100,
> and discussing the lab, you can get an independent outside opinion of
> what you're doing correct/incorrect.
>
> > You have to put in some serious (like, SERIOUS) hands-on study time
> > to pass
>
> Undoubtedly. The key to passing this certification is to understand
> the fundamental principles of how the protocols operate and
> interoperate with each other. There are no shortcuts in this process.
> Learning tools such as classes and workbooks can assist you in this
> process, but you will still only get out of them what you put into
> them.
>
> Good luck on your next attempt.
>
>
> HTH,
>
> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593
> bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
> Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Edward Kelly
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:48 AM
> > To: 'Volodymyr Levytskyy'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: boot camp again :)
> >
> > Hello...
> > ...That's called class auditing and it's pretty common with most
> > technology related classes, doesn't matter if it's Cisco, Microsoft,
> > Joe Router, whichever...They know you really don't want to have to
> > sit through a
> class
> > again...Take the class for what it's worth, whoever you go with, and
> focus
> > on the weaknesses that it exposes...
> >
> > ...Then again, you can always ante up the $1250 to Cisco and take
> > the exam, you'll find out in no uncertain terms *exactly* what you
> > need to concentrate
> > on...You have to put in some serious (like, SERIOUS) hands-on study
> time
> > to
> > pass, boot camp or no...My 2nd attempt is next month and I am
> > looking forward to it...
> >
> > ...I see allot of posts from allot of really sharp people on this
> mailing
> > list, and many of them have helped me understand things, or *notice*
> > things that I hadn't caught before...I suggest you use every
> > resource
> available
> > to
> > you as much and as often as you can...
> >
> > That's my .02...
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Volodymyr Levytskyy
> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:30 PM
> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: boot camp again :)
> >
> > What do you guys think about:
> >
> > "If you do not pass the CCIE Lab after completing this course you
> > will be able to attend the same course again absolutely FREE!"
> >
> > I don't think I will need to take another boot camp. I mean after I
> > fail. I will need just more time to figure out where I make mistake.
> >
> > Any opinion about that :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> > Vlad
> >
> >
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