From: Sam Meftahi (SAF@sonofon.dk)
Date: Wed Mar 24 2004 - 11:02:25 GMT-3
Thanks Scott
But dont u think that almost everyone who read it's theory and had enough practice would pass the LAB if the time was unlimited ??
An expert knows and finds his shi*"! a load quicker than the non expert...why ? cos his knowledge has became second nature.
And this will be my last contribution on this topic which is taking a philosophical turn and that is not what this forum should be about.
Cheers
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Morris [mailto:swm@emanon.com]
Sent: 24. March 2004 14:55
To: Sam Meftahi; 'Richard Dumoulin'; 'Lee Donald'; 'Howard C.
Berkowitz'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: NetMasterClass training
Speed does not equate to expertise.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Meftahi
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:55 AM
To: Richard Dumoulin; Lee Donald; Howard C. Berkowitz;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: NetMasterClass training
Relativity is the answer !, Expert in comparison to what ?
When u compare me and my wife, I am the expert when it comes to cisco
networks (and other things..but we wont tell her that).
It would be great (or maybe not so great), to hold an exam for CCIEs where
the first 10 that finish the lab and pass it are experts CCIE ( so that's
double CCIE).
CCIE is almost like the driving licence, it does not mean u can race Formula
ones straight away, it just means u can drive safely...but U have a
potential to become a racing driver.
Anyway enough blabing, let me go and work towards becoming a CCIE
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Richard Dumoulin
Sent: 24. March 2004 09:46
To: Lee Donald; Howard C. Berkowitz; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: NetMasterClass training
I guess it is just a way to tell people to be modest and not call themselves
"experts". But what's your point ?
--RIchard
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Lee Donald [mailto:Lee.Donald@bacs.co.uk] Enviado el: miircoles, 24 de
marzo de 2004 9:30
Para: Richard Dumoulin; Howard C. Berkowitz; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Asunto: RE: NetMasterClass training
Who is your manager going to phone when his network goes down ?
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
Richard Dumoulin
Sent: 23 March 2004 19:17
To: Howard C. Berkowitz; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: NetMasterClass training
My manager says there is not such a thing as "Experts" because once you have
dominated a technology a new one is already there ...
Regards
--Richard
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Howard C. Berkowitz [mailto:hcb@gettcomm.com] Enviado el: martes, 23 de
marzo de 2004 15:33
Para: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Asunto: RE: NetMasterClass training
At 7:20 AM +0000 3/23/04, Richard Dumoulin wrote:
>Not sure I like your ironical comment. Do u mean we should all be
>attending a 5-day only course to become experts ?
>In my opinion nothing replaces the day to day troubleshoot/research at
>work/lab,
Whether ironical or not, I don't think there is a consistent definition of
"expert" on this list. Obviously, one definition is to be able to be
certified as a CCIexpert.
Other ways of looking at "expertise" could include any or all of:
--read and understand all of, say, the OSPF RFC
--identify the true theory on why certain protocol designs were made.
For example, fairly quick reading of OSPF and ISIS will show they
encode many options differently. OSPF tends to use bit strings.
ISIS tends to use type-length-value constructs. Why was each approach
chosen?
--design and build an OSPF network of sufficient size and complexity
as to stress various features.
--explain how the features will work in a production network, and
what their inherent advantages and limitations they carry. This
point, incidentally, will exclude a LOT of the people who actually
write router code -- they may be very good real-time programmers,
but they are not necessarily adept at designing or troubleshooting
more than one box in a test environment.
--be able to state the requirements for a new protocol, or meaningfully
critique a protocol proposal draft on an IETF link
--be able to state some design choices for a new protocol. For example,
BGP's paradigm isn't going to last forever. Even in the Internet
Research Task Group, Routing Research subgroup, there isn't yet a
consensus. This is getting into research rather than simple expertise
>-----Mensaje original-----
>De: Jason Graun [mailto:jgraun@comcast.net] Enviado el: martes, 23 de
>marzo de 2004 7:27
>Para: 'CHIONG, ERWIN R (ASI)'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Asunto: RE: NetMasterClass training
>
>
>That is good, finally somebody gets it that you must first understand
>the technology and theory behind it before you can become a real
>expert. That is a breath of fresh air around here.
>
>Jason
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>CHIONG, ERWIN R (ASI)
>Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:02 PM
>To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: NetMasterClass training
>
>I just completed a very intensive 5-day course from NetMasterClass in
>preparation for the CCIE lab, and discovered more about this intriguing
>technology than just trying to obtain the certification. I finally
>realized the big difference between learning the technology and
>understanding the technology. I'm sure most of us can learn the
>technology by studying 24x7 (and eventually pass the lab). But,
>understanding the theory and applications behind the different
>protocols and integrating them together
is
>another story.
>
>The instructors and staff at NetMasterClass really know how to help
>build this understanding. At first, I was a bit apprehensive in paying
>for the course myself. But after experiencing how much they truly care
>about teaching how the technology works and helping you understand the
>theory and its applications (rather than just helping you pass the
>lab), I now know that their NMC2 course goes beyond the CCIE
>certification. For all the engineers who are really serious about this
>industry (not just for the certification), the NetMasterClass training
>is highly recommended. (and no, I am not affiliated with the
>company...just a student of this industry who wishes to share my
>experience)
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