From: Peter van Oene (pvo@usermail.com)
Date: Wed Mar 24 2004 - 09:05:15 GMT-3
At 03:56 AM 3/24/2004, Lee Donald wrote:
>My point is experts do exist even if the technology changes constantly. I've
>been in networking 15 years and even if the technology keeps changing, the
>changes are gradual and as long as I keep up with them, I'm an expert. If a
>new technology is introduced that doesn't use any of our planets technology
>and is 100% different then I'm a novice.
>
>My point was, if your Manager's network goes down who will bring it back up
>for him ? An expert ??
What if your 3 year old ccie took the network down himself by over
engineering the network with fun to play with knobs and no real idea how to
build production networks?
>A 3 year old CCIE as long as he is still doing his job is an expert in my
>eyes. What about you ?
it's all relative..i think I made that point before? but please, carry on
with the debate.
ps. there is no correct answer
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Dumoulin [mailto:richard.dumoulin@vanco.es]
>Sent: 24 March 2004 08:46
>To: Lee Donald; Howard C. Berkowitz; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: RE: NetMasterClass training
>
>
>
>I guess it is just a way to tell people to be modest and not call themselves
>"experts". But what's your point ?
>
>--RIchard
>
>-----Mensaje original-----
>De: Lee Donald [ mailto:Lee.Donald@bacs.co.uk]
>Enviado el: miircoles, 24 de marzo de 2004 9:30
>Para: Richard Dumoulin; Howard C. Berkowitz; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Asunto: RE: NetMasterClass training
>
>
>Who is your manager going to phone when his network goes down ?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [ mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
>Richard Dumoulin
>Sent: 23 March 2004 19:17
>To: Howard C. Berkowitz; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: RE: NetMasterClass training
>
>
>My manager says there is not such a thing as "Experts" because once you have
>dominated a technology a new one is already there ...
>
>Regards
>
>--Richard
>
>-----Mensaje original-----
>De: Howard C. Berkowitz [ mailto:hcb@gettcomm.com]
>Enviado el: martes, 23 de marzo de 2004 15:33
>Para: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Asunto: RE: NetMasterClass training
>
>
>At 7:20 AM +0000 3/23/04, Richard Dumoulin wrote:
> >Not sure I like your ironical comment. Do u mean we should all be attending
> >a 5-day only course to become experts ?
> >In my opinion nothing replaces the day to day troubleshoot/research at
> >work/lab,
>
>Whether ironical or not, I don't think there is a consistent
>definition of "expert" on this list. Obviously, one definition is to
>be able to be certified as a CCIexpert.
>
>Other ways of looking at "expertise" could include any or all of:
> --read and understand all of, say, the OSPF RFC
> --identify the true theory on why certain protocol designs were made.
> For example, fairly quick reading of OSPF and ISIS will show they
> encode many options differently. OSPF tends to use bit strings.
> ISIS tends to use type-length-value constructs. Why was each approach
> chosen?
> --design and build an OSPF network of sufficient size and complexity
> as to stress various features.
> --explain how the features will work in a production network, and
> what their inherent advantages and limitations they carry. This
> point, incidentally, will exclude a LOT of the people who actually
> write router code -- they may be very good real-time programmers,
> but they are not necessarily adept at designing or troubleshooting
> more than one box in a test environment.
> --be able to state the requirements for a new protocol, or meaningfully
> critique a protocol proposal draft on an IETF link
> --be able to state some design choices for a new protocol. For example,
> BGP's paradigm isn't going to last forever. Even in the Internet
> Research Task Group, Routing Research subgroup, there isn't yet a
> consensus. This is getting into research rather than simple expertise
>
> >-----Mensaje original-----
> >De: Jason Graun [ mailto:jgraun@comcast.net]
> >Enviado el: martes, 23 de marzo de 2004 7:27
> >Para: 'CHIONG, ERWIN R (ASI)'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Asunto: RE: NetMasterClass training
> >
> >
> >That is good, finally somebody gets it that you must first understand the
> >technology and theory behind it before you can become a real expert. That
> >is a breath of fresh air around here.
> >
> >Jason
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [ mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >CHIONG, ERWIN R (ASI)
> >Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:02 PM
> >To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: NetMasterClass training
> >
> >I just completed a very intensive 5-day course from NetMasterClass in
> >preparation for the CCIE lab, and discovered more about this intriguing
> >technology than just trying to obtain the certification. I finally realized
> >the big difference between learning the technology and understanding the
> >technology. I'm sure most of us can learn the technology by studying 24x7
> >(and eventually pass the lab). But, understanding the theory and
> >applications behind the different protocols and integrating them together
>is
> >another story.
> >
> >The instructors and staff at NetMasterClass really know how to help build
> >this understanding. At first, I was a bit apprehensive in paying for the
> >course myself. But after experiencing how much they truly care about
> >teaching how the technology works and helping you understand the theory and
> >its applications (rather than just helping you pass the lab), I now know
> >that their NMC2 course goes beyond the CCIE certification. For all the
> >engineers who are really serious about this industry (not just for the
> >certification), the NetMasterClass training is highly recommended. (and no,
> >I am not affiliated with the company...just a student of this industry who
> >wishes to share my experience)
>
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