From: Scott Morris (swm@emanon.com)
Date: Tue Mar 02 2004 - 21:37:01 GMT-3
Ahhhh... The infamous "preferred" answer. :)
I would submit that it is likely something in the wording was overlooked
(perhaps the heat of the moment) that would indicate one solution over
another. Or that something else was missed.
While we all love to joke around about "if there are two ways to do
something you need to know all three for the CCIE lab", it's really not that
bad. The exam is results-oriented. If you meet the objectives of the
scenario given whatever contraints specified (either allowed or not allowed
to use), then you'll be fine.
Have you tried talking to the Customer Advocacy folks? Or perhaps the
director of the CCIE program? When approached in a diplomatic fashion (e.g.
not the way these e-mails are written), then I think they would like to hear
the thoughts. I know many of the people invovled in the program, and there
IS great concern and attention paid to the integrity of the program. It
just may not be particularly clear to everyone all the time what that
involves. :)
Use the resources available to you. When I have taken exams (I've had my
share, not all successful) I have made sure to ask PLENTY of questions. At
times I felt like I was the only one doing so (although most of the time not
paying attention to anyone else, just "seemed" that way). But I made sure
that I had all of the clarification I felt I could get. Not everything was
100%. But part of that had to do with how I asked questions and what they
would then be allowed to say. The proctors are there to help, but not give
away answers.
Now, unfortunately, there is no recourse to sit down with the proctor and go
through your exam line by line to tell you what you did wrong. While this
would be an interesting service, it would also completely tie up the process
of taking exams. There is a LOT of time it takes to grade an exam let alone
tell someone why they didn't get the points. The idea is to be impartial in
objective. There are certainly some dissatisfied outcomes of doing this,
however the integrity of the exam is left intact.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
ihatecisco@att.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:16 PM
To: Jay Hennigan
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Your Next Step is CCIE [Cisco feeling the burn]
what is your proposed resolution when you provide a valid solution based on
the "stated" requirements. but that was not their "preferred" answer.
From my impression, the cisco way is to not admit when they are wrong, just
try to offer you some sort of discount/test voucher to try and shut you
up/toss you aside. This happened to me when i renew my CCDP exam, and i had
to fight with them for 3 months for them to read their own website on the
ceritifcation process. I was wrong, but got a free voucher.
I am upset with cisco. and rightly so, i should be. I am now what you would
consider an "unsatisfied customer". But I am just one man, with a net worth
of about (negative 40k).
What recourse do i have against a billion dollar company?
Not much.
Just complain and have the audacity to state something that should be
stated. Cisco doesn't care about the integrity of the test. They should
use a different phrase there. They only care about the security of the test
questions. They don't care if you did something correct & true to the
question because they worded it poorly, or if a tac article supports your
position on what was done as a valid configuration.
They are just trying to refine & streamline a business unit for financial
gain. There is nothing wrong with doing that. But I feel the methods &
standards of obscurity they are applying are childish.
Lets repeat the wonderful microsoft phrase, "security through obsecurity".
So lets substitue "Integrity through obscurity". I guess that's why we have
to talk in *ifs*, *could be's*, *etc*
I am sorry to make you all listen to my complaints and my gripes. But the
bottom line is that cisco doesn't care about you. And when i got this
"special offer" as a CCNP, after all the crap i have went through with
talking to the "powers that be". I was a little pissed off, not to mention
insulted.
HTAPOAE (hot tempered and pissed off as ever)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Hennigan" <jay@west.net>
To: <ihatecisco@att.net>
Cc: "McNeace, Roger" <RMcNeace@ciena.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Your Next Step is CCIE [Cisco feeling the burn]
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 ihatecisco@att.net wrote:
>
> > Why doesn't cisco limit the CCIE examination to a standardized set
> > of information. As of know anything in the IOS command books is fair
game.
and
> > i would wager anything on their website/tac would be fair game as well.
>
> They do. There is a blueprint on the website. Yes, anything in
> IOS/CatOS is fair game, and you can expect to have one or two items
> come winging in from way out in left field, but part of what they are
> testing is your ability to find answers to "out of left field" zingers
under pressure.
>
> Having said that, the core topics are fairly well laid out, and if you
> absolutely nail them, the "left field zingers" items won't torpedo you.
>
> > The entire objective of the CCIE is:
> > Exams are the core of the CCIE program Training is not the CCIE
> > program objective. Rather, the focus is on identifying those experts
> > capable of understanding and navigating the subtleties, intricacies
> > and potential pitfalls inherent to end-to-end networking. To become
> > certified as a CCIE you must pass BOTH a written qualification exam
> > AND the corresponding hands-on lab exam in one of the CCIE tracks.
>
> Indeed.
>
> > Yes things need to change and be updated for technology. But
> > picking
some
> > obscurely documented feature/tac article to throw on a test gets
> > really
old
> > after a while. Especially for some of us that have jobs.
>
> If truly obscurely-documented rarely found stuff was routinely rated
> at high point values, I would agree with you.
>
> Some of us that have jobs need to demonstrate both expert level
> networking skills and the ability to relatively calmly and without
> panic find and fix the one obscurely documented feature that is
> causing a major outage under pressure. The lab exam does a good job of
testing both.
>
> If 90% of the points are core routing and switching technologies and
> all of their quirks, and 10% are obscurely-documented features, then
> that is a pretty good hint as to how to budget study time.
>
> --
> Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - jay@west.net
> WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 WB6RDV
> NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
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