From: Mike Williams (ccie2be@swbell.net)
Date: Wed Oct 01 2003 - 22:56:42 GMT-3
I agree....... Don't get me wrong..... Where I work, we also have some
very talented Windows and Unix admins, I would venture to say that my
network team understands a lot more about how their OS's do networking
than those admins do about how the network actually works (my evidence
for this is that 75% of my group used to be Novell/Windows/Unix admins
while only about 10% of our admins actually know how a device actually
communicates within or outside of a given subnet, how to troubleshoot
Layer2/3 issues properly, etc.... I mean, an admin with decent network
knowledge should be able to troubleshoot misconfigured subnet masks
without coming to "the network group" for help). I'm not putting down
any server admins of any sort...... They do their job and do to well
(some do it well, so are so-so, some are horrible just like in any
occupation), but suffice to say that a majority (certainly not all) of
admins are indeed focused on the particulars of their
servers/applications they maintain than they are networking,
switches-vs-routing, L2/L3, routing protocols, etc.
I also agree that many times (and this applies to *every* place I've
ever worked) problems that pop up are blamed on the network first, and
it's up to the network group to not only prove that it's NOT the network
causing the problem, but then to identify where the problem is and even
guide the desktop/server/application people to a solution.
My 2 cents.
Mike W.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
jgraun@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:57 AM
To: Barney Gaumer
Cc: c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com; Edmund Tham; KMirza@coh.org;
ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE's Looking for employment
I strongly disagree, real network guys have to understand apps, how OSes
work basically every layer of the OSI model, admins just care about
their box or their app and nothing else. Most companies treat
everything as a network problem.
steve
> Hmmm...
>
> gated, zebra, routed... ever heard of those? Don't be
> so small minded. And what os do you think Bozak built
> IOS from??
>
> I have 2 ABR's that are unix, an HA pair running gated
> that are BSD and a Sun E250 runnig zebra.
>
> When comments like that Windows admin thing and the
> Unix admin thing are made it diminishes us as
> professionals. We need to stay above that kind of
> stuff. without them there is no need for us.
>
> IMHO,
> Barney
> --- jgraun@comcast.net wrote:
> > I doubt that. Must UNIX admins just care about
> > there boxes and that is it.
> > > I work with Unix admins that probably know more
> > about
> > > networking than you!
> > >
> > > Cockhead!
> > >
> > > B
> > > --- "c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com"
> > <c0ckhead2000@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I see a lot of people tell me that they are
> > "network
> > > > engineers" but being a windows network admin or
> > a
> > > > UNIX network admin doesnt count. These people
> > cant
> > > > tell me how traceroute works, they ask what TCP
> > > > IPsec uses, they ask what ports need to be
> > opened
> > > > inbound on a firewall for a session keepalive.
> > And
> > > > still they tell me that they are network people,
> > > > then I ask them about BGP and they get scared,
> > they
> > > > are a bunch of jokers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > Edmund Tham <edmund_tcm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I am also a CCIE recently. I have 4 year+ of
> > work
> > > > experience with lots of
> > > > field experience. I am trying to change job to
> > get
> > > > better pay because my
> > > > company is not paying me what a CCIE should be
> > paid
> > > > and my pay sucks. But I
> > > > found that the job market is very saturated with network
> > > > engineer. Don't say
> >
> > > > about screwing up in job interview, I don't even
> > > > have a chance to go for job
> > > > interview with all the application that I have
> > sent
> > > > out. I really don't know
> > > > what the employeer are looking for nowsaday.
> > Maybe
> > > > nowsaday looking for a
> > > > job is not what u know.... but who u know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "fggf fgffg"
> > > > To:
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:38 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: CCIE's Looking for employment
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am a new CCIE, I passed two months ago. I am
> > > > still looking for my first
> > > > computer job, currently I am back-hoe driver for
> > a
> > > > construction company, but
> > > > I read every post on the site and went to every
> > CCIE
> > > > bootcamp for dummies I
> > > > could, so I would only want 110k per year and 4
> > > > weeks vacation. I am fast
> > > > learner so don't worry about my lack of
> > experience.
> > > > What else can you tell
> > > > me about the job.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
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> >
> > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved
> > product
> > > > search
> > > > >
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> > > > Shop.GroupStudy.com***
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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