From: Sudhanshu Gupta (sudhanshu.gupta@wipro.co.in)
Date: Fri Feb 14 2003 - 01:35:47 GMT-3
Hi Team,
I totally agree with Chuck. I have been associated with groupstudy for almost 4 years now and don't even want to unsusbcribe from it even after passing lab two years back and changing employers thrice. Reason is as stated several time before. The kind of people we have, kind of ideas that are bounced off, tips and ways to get one thing done you get, suggestions you get irrespective of how many times you want. To my getting the number I give all credit to the groupstudy only. Though had gone through all sorts of books, lab rentals, hands on in the field, CCO but found this group most helpful. It is indeed THE best resource.
And of course what chuck said in last, let'em know who doesn't know about it. I always request people, who needs some guidance from me, to join groupstudy than looking for some other resource.
Hats off to Tony for getting his number. And to Paul.....
-sudhanshu
#7334
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Church [mailto:ccie8776@rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 4:43 AM
To: Jim Brown; c ,; tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com;
msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: OT It is my turn. CCIE #11071 - How to pass on your first
attempt!
A person who passes on the first time I believe must have had some help,
or at least some insight. I not suggesting knowing info that violates the
NDA. I'm talking about being involved on this study list, going through
some of the well-known practice labs, or attending a bootcamp that shows you
just how tough it is. Looking at my first two attempts, I really was flying
blind. I had read most of the recommended books on the lab list, but didn't
know about groupstudy, or any of the practice labs available. If I'd seen a
ccbootcamp lab before my first attempt, I'd have realized I was in over my
head. But feeling cocky about how I'd breezed through the CCNP/DP, I
scheduled my lab 3 months after passing the written. Not really knowing how
deep the topics were. 2nd attempt was closer after spending a lot of time
doing hands-on stuff I'd seen on the lab, but never really touched before.
But blew other topics. But then found groupstudy, and learned a bunch. So
I guess what I'm trying to say is following the topics discussed here is a
big asset to passing. And if you know someone preparing for the lab who
doesn't know about this list, let 'em know!
Chuck Church
CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <Jim.Brown@caselogic.com>
To: "c ," <ccie1@hotmail.com>; <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>;
<msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com>; <ccie8776@rochester.rr.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: OT It is my turn. CCIE #11071
> I don't think because someone passed on the first time the must have had
> help. There are very intelligent people out there who prepare for
> everything and are able to nail it on their first attempt. I stand in
> awe at their accomplishment and congratulate them only wishing I were
> one of the few also.
>
> As eluded, I know there are study groups out there who share
> information. I constantly see questions pop up on the list taken
> directly from lab material. I have e-mailed the sender offline on an
> occasion or two asking them what commercial practice scenario they
> pulled it from. I even had a couple of replies offline stating a "little
> bird told them." This REALLY upsets me. I did it all on my own and it
> took more than one try but it only devalues my accomplishment when
> people share lab information.
>
> If you ask every candidate after their first attempt who passed or
> failed they would probably all state the exam is very doable. I don't
> know anyone who thought it was too hard or unfair. Anyone who thinks it
> is too hard or unfair probably shouldn't have been there in the first
> place. If I passed the lab with information from another candidate, I
> would beat myself up and question my true ability.
>
> In order to pass on your first attempt you need great preparation, a
> little luck, and you need to be in the zone. If you have prepared well
> and can push those first time jitters to the back of your mind the exam
> is yours. You need to understand how the technologies work, not just how
> to configure them. It is only a challenging test and you can take it
> again. Thank goodness or I wouldn't have passed.
>
> CONGRATULATIONS Tony!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: c , [mailto:ccie1@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:07 PM
> To: tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com; msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com;
> ccie8776@rochester.rr.com
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
>
>
> I think having a study group makes all the difference. Its great to ask
> other people about stuff you dont understand. One thing i would say
> though
> for people who pass the FIRST time.
>
> If you have done it on your own without ANY input from anyone else,
> thats
> truely demonstrats dilligant study habits, but i have yet to hear about
> someone who has passed the first time who didnt ask questions from
> someone
> else who has already passed or is in progress of passing.
>
> You mentioned about a study group, and one thing i have noticed about
> studying with other people (especially ones who have taken the lab) is
> you
> get input about what mistakes they have made and what to watch out for,
> as a
> result, you can figure out where they went wrong and know how to
> configure
> something on the lab.
>
> I think thats "how" the first timers do it. By getting enough info about
>
> what to watch out for and knowing how to configure it. Its those people
> who
> have taken the lab before that make other people successful in my
> opinion. I
> have taken the lab twice now, and will be going for my third attempt in
> April. Other people who i have shared my experience with have passed
> their
> second or first time too, but thats not because I read to deeply into
> the
> topics, its because i explained where i had some confusion on the lab or
>
> didnt know how to do something and we all figured it out together. It
> just
> so happens they were given a similar scenerio that I had and knew how to
>
> configure it.
>
> Now, if only i can find someone who has passed the lab that understands
> some
> of the other topics I had problems with. ;)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Tony Schaffran" <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>
> >Reply-To: "Tony Schaffran" <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>
> >To: "'Michael Snyder'" <msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com>, "'Chuck
>
> >Church'" <ccie8776@rochester.rr.com>
> >CC: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> >Subject: RE: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
> >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:03:44 -0800
> >
> >First off, thank you.
> >
> >Second, I have made an observation within our study group. This may
> >hold true for a number of people. There are a couple of people in our
> >group that are obviously very knowledgeable about all of the topics
> >covered in the CCIE certification. One took three times to pass and
> the
> >other has taken it five times and still does not have his number. It
> is
> >my feeling that these individuals have tried to read toooooo deep into
> >the requirements and over configured. Remember, they are testing your
> >knowledge of the technologies, not your design skills. All I did is
> >read the question and satisfy the requirement. I did not try to get
> >bonus points with any kind of fancy configs. I asked the proctor,
> there
> >is no extra credit. :) The lab I took was in no way to be considered
> >easy or less difficult. I credit my success to my dedication to
> >studies, my wife can attest to that, and knowing where to find what I
> >did not know on the documentation CD. If it is on the CD, why try to
> >memorize it?
> >
> >
> >Tony Schaffran
> >Network Analyst
> >CCIE #11071
> >CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> >NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> >
> >www.cconlinelabs.com
> >Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >Michael Snyder
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:16 PM
> >To: 'Chuck Church'
> >Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: RE: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
> >
> >I think we should burn first timers at the stake!
> >
> >Just kidding, congratulations on your number.
> >
> >Chuck, I've asked myself the same question.
> >
> >I think it's three factors that come into play.
> >
> >A) There are some very sharp people out there. When it comes to the
> >human brain, there's something to be said for raw processing power and
> >good memories.
> >
> >B) Not knowing too much and confusing the issues. I mean, if you only
> >know three ways of doing something, then chances are that at least one
> >of the ways is the answer the test requirement is looking for.
> >
> >What if you know five ways of during the same task? Now your odds of
> >getting the right answer drops. Don't forget each choice picked
> >snowballs from beginning of the lab to the end.
> >
> >Remember the email thread about low scores, I had the same problem on
> my
> >last attempt. My overall core knowledge should have been at least over
> >40%.
> >
> >What if you rule out the correct answer early on the test, because it's
> >a poor design choice? Real world expertise could hurt in this regard.
> >
> >C) Pure luck, studying the right things and getting the right test with
> >the right proctor.
> >
> >Sure Cisco tries to normalize these things, but what if the proctor
> >just got a speeding ticket two hours before he grades your lab? It
> goes
> >the other way too, what if he just spent a great weekend with his
> family
> >in the mountains?
> >
> >Also if Cisco is changing tests on a monthly basis, random factors
> alone
> >would tell us that not all of new tests could be of the same
> >difficultly.
> >
> >Some requirements cut and pasted into a new exam could complement other
> >requirements making the overall exam easier; while other requirements
> on
> >a different exam could conflict and make the overall exam harder.
> >Standing wave theory is popping into my mind here.
> >
> >Even the best proctors couldn't catch such things till they looked at
> >the statistical data for that exam! Which by that time a new batch of
> >tests is being used.
> >
> >Why couldn't a proctor gauge the total difficultly of an exam before
> >they use it? Simple, because when you rate something as easy or
> >difficult or very complicated, you are using yourself as the reference
> >point.
> >
> >What if you know the subject material completely? Now you don't have
> >that reference point anymore. Everything is somewhat easy from your
> >standpoint.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >Chuck Church
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:43 PM
> >To: Tony Schaffran; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >Subject: Re: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
> >
> >Congratulations. I don't know how you "First-Attempters" do it, but
> you
> >certainly got the preparation down pat.
> >
> >Chuck Church
> >CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tony Schaffran" <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>
> >To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:55 PM
> >Subject: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
> >
> >
> > > First of all, I would like to say thank you for all of the input on
> >this
> >list.
> > > Reading the problems and solutions and then trying them on my own
> has
> >given me
> > > great insight.
> > >
> > > Now for the path I have taken.
> > >
> > > 1. Many, many hours of hands on. You don't have to be fast, just
> >consistent.
> > >
> > > 2. I really liked the new IPexpert labs.
> > >
> > > 3. I learned the documentation CD inside and out. When I came
> across
> >an
> >issue
> > > I did not know, I knew exactly where to find it. One of my answers,
> I
> >took
> > > straight from an example.
> > >
> > > 4. Stay calm. If you come across an issue and you know it will not
> >affect
> > > further configuration, skip it and come back.
> > >
> > > 5. My personal touch. I kept track of each section and the points.
> I
> >marked
> > > the ones I truly believed I got correct. As soon as I hit 80%, the
> >rest
> >was
> > > buffer in case for some reason I missed a question I thought I
> >answered
> > > correctly.
> > >
> > > I know these are no real words of wisdom. I am a little in
> disbelief
> >at
> >the
> > > moment. This was my first attempt. All I really have to say is
> WOW!
> > >
> > > Thank you all again.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Schaffran
> > > Network Analyst
> > > CCIE #11071
> > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > NNCSS, NNCDS, CNE, MCSE
> > >
> > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > "Your #1 choice for Cisco rack rentals."
> > > .
> >.
> >.
> >.
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