From: Jason Sinclair (sinclairj@powertel.com.au)
Date: Thu Feb 13 2003 - 19:55:32 GMT-3
Gary,
I don't usually get too involved in these debates, however I must say that
you definitely have the right attitude! Good luck....
Regards,
Jason Sinclair CCIE #9100
Manager, Network Control Centre
POWERTEL
55 Clarence Street,
SYDNEY NSW 2000
AUSTRALIA
office: + 61 2 8264 3820
mobile: + 61 416 105 858
email: sinclairj@powertel.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Duncanson [mailto:gary.duncanson@avt.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, 14 February 2003 09:05
To: Jim Brown
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: OT It is my turn. CCIE #11071
I agree. Good luck to the guy. I have my first attempt in April
and I do know someone who took the lab recently. No way does he violate NDA
in discussions and no way to I attempt to tease it out of him. I have heard
the 'inside' information thing before, and yes I'm sure it goes on but I'm
not interested personally. I would much rather read my books when I'm
exhausted after work, use my lab and do this on my own mettle. I'm sure
there are many who feel the same way. It's been three years of unremitting
hard work for me and I wouldn't have it any other way, although my partner
would beg to differ :) just like a lot of CCIE candidates working hard all
over the world. Bring on Belgium, I'm going to kick ass.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown [mailto:Jim.Brown@caselogic.com]
Sent: Thu 13/02/2003 21:27
To: c ,; tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com;
msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com; ccie8776@rochester.rr.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: OT It is my turn. CCIE #11071
I don't think because someone passed on the first time the must have
had
help. There are very intelligent people out there who prepare for
everything and are able to nail it on their first attempt. I stand
in
awe at their accomplishment and congratulate them only wishing I
were
one of the few also.
As eluded, I know there are study groups out there who share
information. I constantly see questions pop up on the list taken
directly from lab material. I have e-mailed the sender offline on an
occasion or two asking them what commercial practice scenario they
pulled it from. I even had a couple of replies offline stating a
"little
bird told them." This REALLY upsets me. I did it all on my own and
it
took more than one try but it only devalues my accomplishment when
people share lab information.
If you ask every candidate after their first attempt who passed or
failed they would probably all state the exam is very doable. I
don't
know anyone who thought it was too hard or unfair. Anyone who thinks
it
is too hard or unfair probably shouldn't have been there in the
first
place. If I passed the lab with information from another candidate,
I
would beat myself up and question my true ability.
In order to pass on your first attempt you need great preparation, a
little luck, and you need to be in the zone. If you have prepared
well
and can push those first time jitters to the back of your mind the
exam
is yours. You need to understand how the technologies work, not just
how
to configure them. It is only a challenging test and you can take it
again. Thank goodness or I wouldn't have passed.
CONGRATULATIONS Tony!
-----Original Message-----
From: c , [mailto:ccie1@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:07 PM
To: tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com; msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com;
ccie8776@rochester.rr.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
I think having a study group makes all the difference. Its great to
ask
other people about stuff you dont understand. One thing i would say
though
for people who pass the FIRST time.
If you have done it on your own without ANY input from anyone else,
thats
truely demonstrats dilligant study habits, but i have yet to hear
about
someone who has passed the first time who didnt ask questions from
someone
else who has already passed or is in progress of passing.
You mentioned about a study group, and one thing i have noticed
about
studying with other people (especially ones who have taken the lab)
is
you
get input about what mistakes they have made and what to watch out
for,
as a
result, you can figure out where they went wrong and know how to
configure
something on the lab.
I think thats "how" the first timers do it. By getting enough info
about
what to watch out for and knowing how to configure it. Its those
people
who
have taken the lab before that make other people successful in my
opinion. I
have taken the lab twice now, and will be going for my third attempt
in
April. Other people who i have shared my experience with have passed
their
second or first time too, but thats not because I read to deeply
into
the
topics, its because i explained where i had some confusion on the
lab or
didnt know how to do something and we all figured it out together.
It
just
so happens they were given a similar scenerio that I had and knew
how to
configure it.
Now, if only i can find someone who has passed the lab that
understands
some
of the other topics I had problems with. ;)
>From: "Tony Schaffran" <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>
>Reply-To: "Tony Schaffran" <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>
>To: "'Michael Snyder'" <msnyder@revolutioncomputer.com>,
"'Chuck
>Church'" <ccie8776@rochester.rr.com>
>CC: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Subject: RE: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:03:44 -0800
>
>First off, thank you.
>
>Second, I have made an observation within our study group. This
may
>hold true for a number of people. There are a couple of people in
our
>group that are obviously very knowledgeable about all of the topics
>covered in the CCIE certification. One took three times to pass
and
the
>other has taken it five times and still does not have his number.
It
is
>my feeling that these individuals have tried to read toooooo deep
into
>the requirements and over configured. Remember, they are testing
your
>knowledge of the technologies, not your design skills. All I did
is
>read the question and satisfy the requirement. I did not try to
get
>bonus points with any kind of fancy configs. I asked the proctor,
there
>is no extra credit. :) The lab I took was in no way to be
considered
>easy or less difficult. I credit my success to my dedication to
>studies, my wife can attest to that, and knowing where to find what
I
>did not know on the documentation CD. If it is on the CD, why try
to
>memorize it?
>
>
>Tony Schaffran
>Network Analyst
>CCIE #11071
>CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
>NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
>
>www.cconlinelabs.com
>Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf Of
>Michael Snyder
>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:16 PM
>To: 'Chuck Church'
>Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: RE: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
>
>I think we should burn first timers at the stake!
>
>Just kidding, congratulations on your number.
>
>Chuck, I've asked myself the same question.
>
>I think it's three factors that come into play.
>
>A) There are some very sharp people out there. When it comes to
the
>human brain, there's something to be said for raw processing power
and
>good memories.
>
>B) Not knowing too much and confusing the issues. I mean, if you
only
>know three ways of doing something, then chances are that at least
one
>of the ways is the answer the test requirement is looking for.
>
>What if you know five ways of during the same task? Now your odds
of
>getting the right answer drops. Don't forget each choice picked
>snowballs from beginning of the lab to the end.
>
>Remember the email thread about low scores, I had the same problem
on
my
>last attempt. My overall core knowledge should have been at least
over
>40%.
>
>What if you rule out the correct answer early on the test, because
it's
>a poor design choice? Real world expertise could hurt in this
regard.
>
>C) Pure luck, studying the right things and getting the right test
with
>the right proctor.
>
>Sure Cisco tries to normalize these things, but what if the
proctor
>just got a speeding ticket two hours before he grades your lab? It
goes
>the other way too, what if he just spent a great weekend with his
family
>in the mountains?
>
>Also if Cisco is changing tests on a monthly basis, random factors
alone
>would tell us that not all of new tests could be of the same
>difficultly.
>
>Some requirements cut and pasted into a new exam could complement
other
>requirements making the overall exam easier; while other
requirements
on
>a different exam could conflict and make the overall exam harder.
>Standing wave theory is popping into my mind here.
>
>Even the best proctors couldn't catch such things till they looked
at
>the statistical data for that exam! Which by that time a new batch
of
>tests is being used.
>
>Why couldn't a proctor gauge the total difficultly of an exam
before
>they use it? Simple, because when you rate something as easy or
>difficult or very complicated, you are using yourself as the
reference
>point.
>
>What if you know the subject material completely? Now you don't
have
>that reference point anymore. Everything is somewhat easy from
your
>standpoint.
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf Of
>Chuck Church
>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:43 PM
>To: Tony Schaffran; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
>
>Congratulations. I don't know how you "First-Attempters" do it,
but
you
>certainly got the preparation down pat.
>
>Chuck Church
>CCIE #8776, MCNE, MCSE
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tony Schaffran" <tschaffran@cconlinelabs.com>
>To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:55 PM
>Subject: It is my turn. CCIE #11071
>
>
> > First of all, I would like to say thank you for all of the input
on
>this
>list.
> > Reading the problems and solutions and then trying them on my
own
has
>given me
> > great insight.
> >
> > Now for the path I have taken.
> >
> > 1. Many, many hours of hands on. You don't have to be fast,
just
>consistent.
> >
> > 2. I really liked the new IPexpert labs.
> >
> > 3. I learned the documentation CD inside and out. When I came
across
>an
>issue
> > I did not know, I knew exactly where to find it. One of my
answers,
I
>took
> > straight from an example.
> >
> > 4. Stay calm. If you come across an issue and you know it will
not
>affect
> > further configuration, skip it and come back.
> >
> > 5. My personal touch. I kept track of each section and the
points.
I
>marked
> > the ones I truly believed I got correct. As soon as I hit 80%,
the
>rest
>was
> > buffer in case for some reason I missed a question I thought I
>answered
> > correctly.
> >
> > I know these are no real words of wisdom. I am a little in
disbelief
>at
>the
> > moment. This was my first attempt. All I really have to say is
WOW!
> >
> > Thank you all again.
> >
> >
> > Tony Schaffran
> > Network Analyst
> > CCIE #11071
> > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > NNCSS, NNCDS, CNE, MCSE
> >
> > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > "Your #1 choice for Cisco rack rentals."
> > .
>.
>.
>.
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